I'm planning on using 36-50 and using PTs 60-72 for actual PTs. I might use PTs 50-59 for drills and purchase PTs 73-84 on Amazon. Please advise.

I currently go to UC San Diego and took 20 units this past quarter while studying for the LSAT for about 2months(ish) and scored a 143 with little to no sleep before the night of the exam (insomnia) I took around.. 1-2 practice exams with no Blind Review at all, kind of just went in and hoped for the best (I know I’m stupid; However I did Volunteer work for a US House Member and worked full time). This time around I’ll be studying for a month with 7sage as well as an in-class prep course offered by my University.

I’ve read online that the average score for URM (Black Males) at T-14 schools is a 159

My stats:

I'm a first-generation Black Male

Born in Brooklyn, New York raised in the SF Bay Area (Grew Up in Rough neighborhoods, Gangs, Drugs, Violence)

I speak French (Parents are Political Refugees from the Ivory Coast; Left during the War)

Father has wrote books; has a Doctorate Degree from a Univeristy in Milan, Italy

Father left mother in Middle School; (Single Mother)

Interships one in Sacramento and one canvasing for Congressman Mike Levin

With roughly 5 weeks before my exam do any of you believe that I can score a 157 if I take this seriously.

I’ve heard of people going to 140 to 160’s but with the time constraint I’m affected by as well as the impact of soft factors on my application and the presitge of my current University I believe that a 157 could help me. Do any of you believe that high 150’s is a realistic goal?

– Thanks!

I suffer from anxiety and I find that when I am doing the PT I get very stressed and cannot write neatly / stay focused.

Do you have ay tips on how to stay calm during PTs?

My score changed 15 points from when I am timed and when I am not!!

I recently took the November exam and got a 154, a one point decrease from my July take. My LSAC GPA is a 3.48. I have been on 7sage for about 3 years with multiple life interruptions mixing in. Its quite disappointing to have invested so much time and be on the outside looking in of where I wanted to be. I made many, many mistakes to say the least.

Anyway, I'm not sure where to go from here. I have a full time job now working for the local county government and I'm just not sure what I should do with my dreams of law. I would still love to be a lawyer! And I truly loved 7sage and how they taught everything. I just couldn't ever seem to make the mental leap necessary. I started at a 148, dipped down to the 130's, rebounded into the mid to high 150's, even got a 160 on a PT but couldn't quite get to where I needed to be.

I'm 26 years old and am starting to get weary of making too many crazy moves. Law school is a big deal and the money is a huge investment and I don't want to be some lawyer on a billboard chasing ambulances. I'm not T-14 or bust but I'm not going to go to a regional school and pile the debt on. I know this community has a good bit of wisdom so I'm humbling asking for your thoughts. Thanks.

Hi guys,

I was wondering if you guys notice any interesting things about taking PT's and getting jumps in gains on the LSAT?

For example, was your improvement really gradual and incremental, or did it increase in leaps (occasionally with plateaus) after recognizing a certain thing or concept, or just reviewing why you missed certain questions? (i.e. 150 -> 152 -> 154 ->155 -> 158 , etc.)

Or ( 150 -> 152 ->158 -> 157 -> 164 -> 165, etc.)

For me, I noticed my score tend to increase in "leaps." Though I'm not sure if this is due to just starting and going through newbie gains, or actually starting to recognize patterns. (I feel like there can still be a huge improvement on my timing, and I'm trying my best!)

Just curious on how people got these improvement stories of stuff like 150 -> 162 -> 17X or, 162 -> 17X (how I did it, tales. For example, through incremental improvement, or just bounds of improvement and periods of plateau, then major improvement then stability again.)

Thanks!

https://media.giphy.com/media/YVykqwCynL66Y/giphy.gif

I've been having a lovely discussion in another thread and I happen to be on a very strict time table that can't be altered so naturally the subject arises, to postpone, is that possible? Unfortunately I pretty much have to start in the fall of '19. Having started in October I'm taking the January LSAT and hoping I score high enough that a mediocre GPA with an excellent addendum and some exquisite personal statements and LORs and the moral purity of my intent will be enough to compensate for the lateness in the cycle. So naturally, maybe, but maybe I don't get admitted anywhere in the top 14. Then what?

I'd love to attend pretty much anywhere, though. I'm thinking T14 or bust because all of the information that can be found in a cursory search says a JD from essentially anywhere else may as well be your corpse, as our rarer monsters are, painted on a pole and underwrit, "Here may you see the effect of irrecoverable debt."

My desire for the T14 in this sense is entirely practical; prestige has no effect on me. Of course some of these places like Yale are dream places because of the rare opportunities they represent and how Harvard and Yale have a couple of the largest libraries on Earth. Yet the Socratic method works as well at any ABA school, does it not?

My grandfather was an attorney. For undergraduate he went to Columbia. For law school he went to Fordham, where he got his JD in 1950 at the age of 29. He went on to have a terrific career and life, and died a well loved old man. His command of conditional logic was a thing of divine elegance. However, 7sage says they're 29-37 on US News in the last few years. Could things really have changed so dramatically in only 68 years that I may as well not go to Fordham if admitted? Where would I find the data?

I mean, I figure, I'm legacy, they have a great location, my grandfather always spoke very highly of them and their requirements are marginally less strict than the T14. I don't doubt my ability to top my class at this point in life. Yet would this be to acquire a hopeless debt?

Where is the exact line past the T14? Seems like UCLA is sometimes 15. Being one below the T14 couldn't be a death sentence, could it? Also their admissions policy seem friendly to me for a variety of reasons. I'd prefer to be anywhere in Pennsylvania to North Carolina but Duke is 11 and PennState is 74! I mean, University of Pennsylvania, hope for a miracle, but, woof.

I’m taking the January test and in full swing of my PTs. What I’m finding is more recently, I’m getting easier questions wrong because my thought process is something like, “oh no, this question couldn’t possibly be this easy” or “what am I missing? This has to be a trick question.” And then I’m getting these easy questions wrong. Is there anything I can do to combat this?

I am thinking of seating for the June 2019 Exam. Does anyone has taken the exam in Georgetown or Albany? If yes, how was your experience at these centers.

Hi,

I've foolproofed almost all the games from PT1~current, with a few remaining fresh PT's.

I've done at least 2,000 games. I have no problem meeting the target time when I repeat games.

But whenever I face a new LG section, I go anywhere from -8 to -10. My cold score for LG was -10 (PT68), which I took two years ago. It's so strange that I have made almost zero improvement, although my conditional logic is much more solid than it was two years ago.

I know that there are patterns on the LG, but I have serious issues registering new rules into my head and pushing out inferences under time pressure. My brain really,really suffers whenever I see new logic games.

I've been doing almost only LG prep intensively for the last two months, but my LG performance is actually getting worse.

At this point, I'd be very happy with a -5 on the real thing.

Any help or encouragement will be appreciated.

Thank you.

Hi fam and happy holidays to those celebrating!

I had a quick notation question if that's alright? So coming from a formal logic background and Powerscore tutoring, I was always told to notate an "and" statement like so:

..........B

A→ +

..........C

However, while I was foolproofing the Logic Games from PT 70 I came across J.Y's method/style:

A→B

↘ C

I do remember this notation from my 7 sage days years ago and more recently from some lessons upon my return, so I tried it. No surprise, it made the game infinitely easier (Game 2 for reference).

My question is this: Are there situations where one style is better than the other and if so what are they?

Thanks for your time!

Hi All!

I’m planning to take the January test. I’ve already postponed several times (I’ve been postponing since June) and want to finally get it over with. I’ve been studying consistently for quite a while and have jumped from a 148 to 165+. My goal is 170+ and I think I still have room for improvement (especially because I just recently started properly BR-ing everything, even doing written explanations for my thought process). I’ll be graduating from a top 10 undergrad (with a 3.94 GPA) in May and then plan to take a gap year to work and apply to law school next cycle during my gap year. I went through the 7sage curriculum but also did Powerscore Bible stuff, had a tutor, and took a class. I’ve been doing lots of drills and now have recently moved on to individual timed sections. On the sections, I’ve averaging -0/-1 on LG, -2/-3 on RC, and -4/-5 on LR. I think that’s pretty good and am able to focus quite well during individual sections. However, whenever I have to take a practice test, I freak out. I find any excuse to postpone it and then when I actually sit down to do it, I feel incredibly anxious and unmotivated. I’m trying to do 6 section practice exams now in order to build up endurance, but I’m not sure if that’s the right approach. Maybe I’m just burnt out...any thoughts or advice? Similar experiences? Should I take the March test? Thank you!!

How many LR questions do top scorers completely skip in their Round 1? How many do they circle due to under confidence/uncertainty (but still chose an AC) and then return to?

For me, in a LR section, I usually completely skip around 5-6 questions in my round 1. So I end up finishing my LR round 1 pass at about 27 minutes, and I have about 8 minutes to go back and finish those 5-6 questions I completely skipped.

Those 5-6 questions I completely skipped are usually long formal logic questions, long parallel reasoning questions, tough sufficient assumption questions which I suspected need a lot logic mapping, or questions I read the stimulus twice and didn't understand and skipped in about 1 minute.

In addition to those 5-6 questions I completely skipped, I also have around 2-3 questions I circled and filled in an answer choice but was uncertain because I was down to 2 answer choices (one AC at 60% confidence level and another at 40%, and I filled in the 60% confidence level AC).

Those 2-3 questions I also wanted to get a second look at, but I often can't/run out of time because I'm rushing to complete those 5-6 questions I completely skipped.

Am I completely skipping too many? Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated. Thank you!

Hi Everyone! I finished 7sage CC at the end of Nov and took a post-CC diagnostic. I have been studying on and off for logic games proofing (only a few days worth) and have decided to push my Jan 2019 LSAT to March. I'm trying to figure out what I want to do between now and March but I'm kind of lost. My post-CC diagnostic is between 10-20 points from my goal score and I noticed that timing is an issue for me too. I have only taken 1 PT since the CC, tried to begin foolproofing, got tied up doing job interviews and I guess now I'm at square one again. However, I am ready to hit the ground running again and especially now that I am giving myself more time.

Q: Should I take a few more PTs now to determine where I'm at curriculum-wise before jumping into logic game proofing or just go right into LG proofing?

With a little more time, I can take more PTs before the real deal but I'm not going to have time to commit to a robust logic games proofing schedule (section a day, Pacifico's method, one whole month).

Q: Is it possible to get the benefits of foolproofing from just doing the logic games from the PTs I take? JY's or Pacifico's Method?

I also start taking classes at the beginnng of January, have a two-week sping break in March and the week after that I have the exam. I made sure that my schedule wasnt going to be to rigorous to make time for the LSAT but I see these three months as my "PT and rigourous BR" phase of my studying (1-2 test per week for 12 weeks). My post-CC diagnostic was pretty average but it may or not be the best indication for where I am right now (those were the first and only-timed sections/questions I've done since I started 7Sage).

Q: Is more or less PTs in my situation better? Timing is an issue for me, but it's not like I scored a 180 on the BR of that post-CC PT.

So what's the best course of action I should take? I plan to reboot my LSAT studying on Sunday (Dec. 23).

P.S. I had a chance to checkout the Post-CC webinar and that was pretty helpful too but wondering if anyone has any advice to drive home, add or tweak from what was advised.

How long does it take for LSAC to process international transcripts?

It's been over two months for me. Two long months riddled with complications and no proper responses. I sent in my transcripts and heard back weeks later about them needing my degree certificate as well. Sent that in urgently under a week and emailed them to check if they had gotten it since I hadn't heard back. They said they're unable to answer since they receive lots of documents every day and that I should wait for the transcript to be processed to my file. Three weeks pass by again and I mail them asking how much longer I need to wait. To which I get a reply, days later, that they're still waiting for my degree certificate! I emailed them about the confusion, to which there was no reply so I called them up and after a long, gruelling conversation I was told they've received my degree certificate they just can't seem to locate it. They were supposed to get back to me today and they didn't.

Looks like my application's slated for January now. This is so disappointing.

Any international student listening, how was your experience?

Recently graduated. Started studying in October with this course but only a couple hours here and there a week. Took the LSAT in November and got a148. I plan on on studying full time for the March test. Is that enough time to get into the 160s?

Salutations!

So when I first saw the pencil threads here and at TLS my impression was that they were jokes entirely. But as a result of them I did notice that the videos of folks trying the logic games here do show an expensive pencil, they say Staedtler Wopex on them and I happen to have heard of that brand. In contrast all the pencils I have here do not have a brand that I've heard of because they were less than ten cents each, and not being a graphite artist or technical sketcher I've never had a reason to have quality graphite.

So, it did make me curious, does 7sage just happen to have oddly artistic grade pencils around or does a high quality pencil actually give you a bit of precious extra time on bubbling? I asked 7sage directly but the staffer there said to ask here, and encouraged me to become socially involved here as well.

I'm taking the January '19 LSAT incidentally so it will still be scantron. This is incidentally the only one I can take, postponement is impossible. I've had only the three months before to prepare and I just have 7sage starter. I wish I could postpone but I was displaced from my industry and home in California wine country by the Tubbs and Atlas Fires. I've been living with my parents and fiance since, trying to find a new, less flammable career. It only occurred to me in mid-October, my grandfather was an attorney, how might I do on the LSAT? So I took a practice test to see how I might do. Although my overall score was only 160 I did get -0 RC, and I really loved taking the exam, so I've been crunching 7sage videos at 2.4x and logic games ever since. I've never had any previous exposure to conditional logic, except, as I realised in retrospect, in my grandfather's sense of humor. Learning it since has been one of my greatest pleasures thus far. I've always been rather good at argumentation but conditional logic is a whole other level of perception, my experience of the universe has been altered irrevocably.

After noticing I was still confused (thank you Eliezer Yudkowsky) about certain principles of the examination in spite of having covered all of the materials on Khan Academy I tried the free trial here. When JY Ping in his description of the Blind Review said "[. . .] Your aim is true understanding [. . .]" I became enraptured in the curriculum and immediately purchased the Starter package, the most I could afford. This in combination with 7sage's assertion that law school is a more difficult challenge than the LSAT itself has had me exhilarated. Sharpen my mind, O grind stone! Rend confusion from the fat of my brain, O great Socratic axemen!

But yes, unfortunately I simply must begin in the fall of '19 regardless of how it goes. My situation cannot wait. I'm doing logic games over and over again as prescribed by 7sage's Fool-Proof Guide to Perfection and noticing rapid improvement. After the New Year I'll just be doing as many Practice Tests as I can before the 26th without experiencing diminishing returns and fatigue, on this point I'm sure I can do more than average for a variety of reasons each of which are matters of protracted discussion. Then I'll just see how it goes.

I worked 12 hours a day 6 days a week at a winery in Napa and I've been studying that way since mid-November, but I've been crunching the fundamentals and the games. I haven't taken a new practice test to see how 7sage has helped me yet. I can't wait, though.

Existentially anxious, though! Since yeah, it's Fall '19 or bust and T14 or bust. I mean, I'll be applying to some safety schools since my overall undergraduate GPA was 3.15. Though my average for the last two years of it is way better, I struggled with severe depression and other health and mental health issues associated with an utter lack of structure in childhood, something I've made dramatic strides in since. I graduated in 2012 though and my work experience since then is a wild ride of exotic types of labor, so, hopefully that'll matter less especially if I can pull off a 173-180. Also as a school of theater some of the grades were entirely subjective. I'm hoping if I really ace the LSAT and write an interesting enough application I can sway Yale, but then of course there's the probability I won't get in anywhere in the T14. I know if I had done any college lately I'd have a 4.0 but, I haven't.

Although, as to how far down past the T14 one can go and still not be indebted to an unemployable degree, I don't exactly know. I'd love to know more about this since, obviously a safer range of schools and a wider variety of places to live is better.

One thing that might help my situation is my intent, I noticed a few schools have debt forgiveness for people working in human rights or the public sector. My fiance grew up in poverty and really knows how to live well on a limited budget and neither of us have any special material needs. In fact we've at times roamed penniless between agricultural volunteer opportunities in the most rugged conceivable conditions. I can trod through several feet of livestock effluent with a hay bale on my back so I can certainly make a modest salary.

So I may certainly be interested in something like that, the only difficulty there is that my basic intent is to do the greatest possible moral good I may, like anyone, and not having a great familiarity with the industry of law such as it is constituted presently, I don't necessarily know which parts of the field that is. International human rights sounds like it'd involve a lot of moral good but I don't know that. It attracts my interest because human rights violations internationally is one of the primary focuses of my vocational reading. I'm revolted by the great number and frequency of them, and especially how many of them are directly caused by the United States government, regardless of who is in charge. As to what I can do about that with a JD from one of many schools each of which educated several politicians, some of whom are directly responsible for much of these moral horrors is, unclear. So far I only know I love the process.

I don't know how this ended up sprawling so much, sorry. I should probably get back to logic games. Incidentally I notice a lot of people saying "Fool-proofing" as a verb, I think because of the document "Fool-proof Guide to Perfection on Logic Games." Interesting that it developed that way. The language instinct is fascinating.

Oh, random thing! I had a previous thread about my confusion with "or." As someone very language oriented I had always understood or as biconditionally exclusive and it was screwing me up. I've since found it helps to think that "or" in natural language is not generally equivalent to the inclusive disjunction A ∨ B in formal logic, but that on the LSAT, it is.

For causation logic, I know for strengthen questions, there are a few ways to strength an argument

But does "No Cause, No effect" also strengthen?

And similarly for weaken question,

does "no cause, effect happens" -- weaken? Couldn't there be another cause that is accounting for that effect, while also still allowing for the original cause to still cause the effect?

For example, Doing bicep curls causes you to grow muscle.

Would an answer explanation of "He didn't do bicep curls but still grew muscle" weaken that argument? I would think not, because there are other ways you can grow muscle, like doing pushups, etc.

Any clarification or explanation on such causation logic and ways to strengthen/weaken causation would be appreciate.d Thank you!

So we've tossed this around on a couple of different threads, but I wanted to put this up as a new one, just in case it catches anyone's eye who missed the other posts. A few of us in NYC (mostly downtown, also Queens) are looking to start a new study group, and we're going to start by doing BR on the Nov. test. We're meeting Saturday at the Jefferson Library in the West Village - probably 1-5pm. Please comment and/or join us if this is something you want in on...now or just in general over the next couple of months. So far I love JY's methods and explanations, and like so many on here, I only wish I'd found 7sage sooner. But better late than never on a test we're allowed to retake, right?

Hello! I was originally going to be applying for law school this year but decided to get a master's degree first instead, so I will not be applying until next application cycle. I had already been approved for the LSAC fee waiver, which will expire in August of 2019. I am wondering if any of y'all have experience with renewing your fee waiver? Is it as simple as just reapplying/supplying them with updated tax info in 2019?

Thanks!

For the Northwestern application they have a section that asks, "What are your career interest(s) immediately after law school?" and "What are your long-term career goals?"

I have my interests, but I have no concrete ideas about what exactly I'll be doing after graduation. There is an option to leave this section blank. Will not having an answer put me at a disadvantage? Or at least be looked down upon?

Can anyone shed more light on the GULC part-time application? I've done a bit of research, but I have not been able to find out if full time and part time are separate applications. Can you apply to only one or the other in a cycle, or can you apply to both? Or do you just apply to GULC in one application and then you can decide from there if you want to do full or part time? Sorry if this is posted somewhere but I haven't been able to find it.

So the July 2018 non disclosed test was the February 2014 LSAT. The February 2018 test was the February 2016 test.

So it seems like nondisdisclosed test are around 2/3/4 years older than when they are given. So for the upcoming January 2019 non disclosed test, should we be focusing/prioritizing on PT's in the 2015/2016 range? This would be PT's in the mid to late 70s?

Should we do this as opposed to focus on the very most recent exams (mid 80s)?

(Let's assume we have 5 weeks left to the January test, and we're trying to choose which 5 PT's we are planning to take - mid 70s or mid 80s).

I've heard the more recent PT's have changed. Though I haven't taken PT's from 74-86, so I can't really speak about the more recent changes. Can someone explain the differences between PT's in the early 70s to PT's in the mid 80s?

Is there a big difference btw PT's in the mid to late 70s and PT's in the mid 80s?

If there is a difference, should focus more on PT's in the 70s, since that is what is more likely to be represented on a non disclosed test?

Also, it seems like non disclosed test seem to have had a pattern of kinda weird games. Should we be more intentional in practicing those?

any advice or suggestions would be appreciated. thank you.

Would love any feedback from the most wise and experienced @NotMyName and @"Cant Get Right" !! thank you!!

I don’t see it anyone under the logic games tab. Not sure if my iPad is funky, if I should redownload or if 7Sage just doesn’t update the app for working functionality...

I was wondering how different tier 1, 2, and 3 law schools are academically. Will a t-14 school typically be more difficult than a tier 2 school. If so, how large is the difference? Or is the difficulty level similar, and the prestige is what sets these schools apart? Do people sometimes choose schools based on their teaching styles and how demanding the work load will be? Would it be smart to attend a tier 2 school where you think you can excel, or a top law school where you know you will be overwhelmed.