In need of advice/tough love re: GPA

Bob Loblaw

I have a cumulative GPA of 3.4 in a Bachelor of Arts degree from Cornell University ('17). I double majored and double minored (if that counts for anything) in humanities related fields. I don't have an explanation for the GPA other than the struggles of navigating university as a first-gen student. I will not be writing an addendum on this.

I need to be realistic about my law school prospects but would love to consider Michigan or Northwestern (Columbia/NYU if it's not too hopeless). I know that with a near-perfect LSAT score, I can achieve this but I need someone to be straight with me. Do I need to lower my standards/expectations? Is T14 out of the question? If T14 is a possibility, what LSAT should I strive for to compensate for my GPA?

Thanks in advance for the advice and honesty!

Ohnoeshalpme

The general advice is that if you are below a given school's 25th percentile in gpa you would need to score above their 75th percentile in the lsat. More specifically, a 0.1 GPA below the 25th usually needs to come with a 1+ higher lsat score than the 75th. Meaning, if you have a 3.4 GPA and you want to get into Columbia, which is 3.7, 173, you'd need to score a 176 to be comparable to a student who got the median scores.

My inclination is that a 170 would be the lowest score that you should accept before applying to the t14 with that GPA. With a GPA range of 3.35-3.45 and an LSAT range of 170-171 you can see: http://mylsn.info/470yzw/ that there's little to no chance of upper t14 but mid-lower you might still have a chance.

LivingThatLSATdream

Don't put the cart ahead of the horse. I'm guilty of this as I'm sure so many other prospective law students are as well. I've spent a ridiculous amount of time running through my chances of acceptance, and where I "should" apply if I get x or y LSAT score. I'm saying this to point out something I'm sure you already know, but unlikely to stop doing (I haven't lol).

The second and more important point I want to make is: YOU DO NOT NEED TO LOWER YOUR STANDARDS! If you have a dream or goal, keep on pushing until you make it happen. Check out @JustDoIt 's post https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/15963

@Ohnoeshalpme pointed out some good information on what score you should strive to obtain. Do you have a link for that general advice (.01 /+1)? I'd be interested in looking at it more in depth so I can continue obsessing and playing what if scenarios.

brigitte

You can still make it to Columbia NYU or Chicago if you get a 175+. (If you are a URM, you can still get into Harvard and possibly Yale and Stanford. In addition, if URM, the required LSAT score will be much lower - probably 158+ will give you a good shot at T14.)

tringo335

Definitely don't lower your standards. You are still in the running especially for 'splitter' schools. I hear Northwestern is pretty favorable to splitters. By chance are you a URM? This will also give you a leg up.

This article may shed some more light:

https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/which-law-schools-are-splitter-friendly

Leah M B

T14 is not out of the question, but splitter cycles are always really unpredictable. You should plan on applying to a wide range of schools. If you are set on going to law school, there are good scholarships to be had in the T20 as well. I'd do a lot of research on LSN and MyLSN to see which schools might be a little friendlier. You'd probably be looking at lower T14 and would need at bare minimum a 170, preferably a few points above.

Ohnoeshalpme

@LivingThatLSATdream This general wisdom is based off of data from law school indices which vary from school to school. One good source is: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=274785. The link will take you to a forum, scroll down to the bottom of the first post and there is a link to an excel sheet. You'll have to download from google sheets for it to work. It automatically takes into account the indices of various schools that post them online. Though the 0.1gpa=1lsat is not a perfect correlation we can see generally that this makes index scores remain the same.

for example: Columbia calculates an index score of 4.32 for students who have a 175 LSAT and a 3.5 gpa. A 174 LSAT score and a 3.6 gpa gives a score of 4.33, and for a 173 lsat and a 3.7 gpa gives the index score of 4.34. In terms of the index, these three hypothetical students are almost identical and all we have done is trade 0.1 of gpa for 1 point of LSAT.

Bob Loblaw

Thank you everyone for your replies!!! My friends are incredibly encouraging and supportive, but I always take that with a grain of salt given their bias. I trust your words of wisdom and will definitely keep pushing through. And yes, I am URM and planning on milking that for all it's worth

AshleighK

@Ohnoeshalpme Do you happen to know the general advice on the opposite scenario? High GPA but low LSAT score?

Ohnoeshalpme

@AshleighK said:
@Ohnoeshalpme Do you happen to know the general advice on the opposite scenario? High GPA but low LSAT score?

Reverse splitters (GPA 75th, LSAT 25th) generally have lower acceptance rates when compared to conventional splitters (GPA 25th, LSAT 75th). Part of it depends upon what the school needs in any given cycle. We can expect that if a school has a lower 75th percentile GPA than they would like, they would be keen to accept students who improve their numbers in this category. There are two primary reasons why a high LSAT is usually favored over a high GPA. First, USNEWS rankings weight LSAT at 15% of a schools overall ranking and GPA at 10%. Second, LSAT scores are more predictive of law school success than GPA is.

FixedDice

Do I need to lower my standards/expectations? Is T14 out of the question?

Definitely not. I personally wouldn't expect a nod from Yale though.

If T14 is a possibility, what LSAT should I strive for to compensate for my GPA?**

171 at least.

potatocowpower

I don't know if this is helpful but I know someone who just got into michigan with 50% scholarship with a 3.49 double major with a 172 lsat

Beast Mode

Go for what you want, don't limit your self. You never know what the other side of the mountain has to offer. Will it be easy to climb up no, success is consistency, self belief and determination. Enjoy the process and try everyday to make it happen. As long as you have decided you can do it, the universe loves a stubborn heart and will provide you with what you deserve.

beezmoof

@"Beast Mode" I really love your positivity