Videos of Sages doing LSATs

DumbHollywoodActor

I just saw that there was a new video that showed a very good student working through an LSAT logic game in real time, with JY providing color commentary. (could you imagine a TV channel that did nothing but this?). http://7sage.com/lsat_explanations/lsat-35-section-3-game-4/#comment-30736.

I also remember seeing @"Jonathan Wang" doing an LR section in real time (25 questions in 25 minutes no less--- bows and incants “we’re not worthy!!” over and over again) on the boards, but I can’t find it anymore.

I think there are even more out there, but I’m having trouble finding them. Is there a way we can organize finding these videos in an easier fashion? I guess this is more of a question for LSAT Forum guru and all-aroung awesome guy, @"Dillon A. Wright”

I’m at a place now where I really understand much of the LSAT. I just don’t have the most efficient process to execute the LSAT in the time allotted. I think watching people knock it out of the park could really help.

iiiSpoon

Hey DHA, here's Jonathon's timed LR section:

I don't know how well this will help since most of the thought process behind LR questions is in the mind, as evident by how clean Jonathon's test is.

DumbHollywoodActor

Thanks @E.CH.Poon ! I stand corrected. 25 questions in 19 and a half minutes. That is unreal!

nicole.hopkins

Wow ... dude ... this tho ... Oh man ... So excited ... This can be your birthday present to me, @DumbHollywoodActor and @E.CH.Poon

nicole.hopkins

He's doing the thing with the pen and the reading and the swiftness ...

DumbHollywoodActor

right? Then he starts twisting it like he’s Gene Krupa with a drumstick!

nicole.hopkins

I just had the utterly insane idea of making videos as 7sage students, posting them, and critiquing them for one another. Might be kinda cool.

And/or, doing this to see how we actually perform from another perspective. I bet you actor types do this, @DumbHollywoodActor ? "What does my face really look like when I think I am looking scary ..." Etc?

DumbHollywoodActor

Doing camera work and then watching it (brutal as that may be) is the Blind Review of acting technique.

inactive

Oh jeez, I'm far from a guru. Or an awesome guy.



I don't think we have an organized list of live videos, but here's a bunch for PT 37:
http://7sage.com/prep-test-37-logic-games-live-video/

J.Y. Ping

Dillon's right - there's no organized list b/c there aren't many of them.

To date we have full live videos (some with commentary) for PTs 23, 35, and 37.

PT 23's have two live commentary versions for Game 1. It's interesting to see the contrast b/t a medium LG performance and a high LG performance:
http://7sage.com/lsat_explanations/lsat-23-section-1-game-1/

DumbHollywoodActor

Thanks @"J.Y. Ping"

DumbHollywoodActor

I love the thing she does with the finger. Totally stealing that.

Pacifico

was that a 25 out of 25 for @"Jonathan Wang" on that LR section?

lschoolgo

This is unreal..he was at Q4 after 1:30 mins..

But he may have done this section before many times as instructors typically do. For a strictly fresh never-before-seen test, this is too blazin to be real

@Pacifico said:was that a 25 out of 25 for @"Jonathan Wang" on that LR section?

Jonathan Wang

I'd never seen the section before. If I had, I would probably have answered the tough questions much faster, as I would naturally have thought about them more so that I could explain them better to my students. And, if I wanted to make myself look really smart, I wouldn't have struggled on so many questions. I would have just pretended to read a lot and then just circled the answer, and not been visibly frustrated/confused like I clearly was at several points.

That said, I realize there's nothing I can do to prove any of what I just said, so you can believe whatever you want.

Looking at the section again - #1 is a very easy strengthen question, #2 is a main conclusion with a very obvious structure, and #3's answer choice sticks out like a sore thumb by mentioning the obviously irrelevant profit motive. I think a lot of 170+ scorers would be able to get through those questions in 90 seconds or so. It's the more difficult questions where mastery starts to grow the gap.

lschoolgo

Very helpful to watch this.
Yeah this recording is from May 2012 a couple of months after the test release which wasn't apparent. Earlier it had seemed that it's a new recording and since it's many years old PT, one would assume that people who teach the test on a daily basis would've seen these questions many times over.

You mentioned in the commentary on how you felt after the test in a different video () that you used POE on 11/25 questions. Does it mean that for the rest you simply circled the answer you thought was correct based on stim without confirming other answers to be wrong (topdown?) What level of confidence one needs to feel in the choice circled based on stim without checking other choices and moving on?
Looking at other answer choices to confirm that they are wrong seems to take a lot of time for me and leads to timing issues and rushing to finish the section at the end.

It'd be useful for many I think to see similar recordings for other fresh tests in LR and RC, like the june one that's going to be released soon.

@"Jonathan Wang" said:
I'd never seen the section before. If I had, I would probably have answered the tough questions much faster, as I would naturally have thought about them more so that I could explain them better to my students. And, if I wanted to make myself look really smart, I wouldn't have struggled on so many questions. I would have just pretended to read a lot and then just circled the answer, and not been visibly frustrated/confused like I clearly was at several points.

That said, I realize there's nothing I can do to prove any of what I just said, so you can believe whatever you want.

Looking at the section again - #1 is a very easy strengthen question, #2 is a main conclusion with a very obvious structure, and #3's answer choice sticks out like a sore thumb by mentioning the obviously irrelevant profit motive. I think a lot of 170+ scorers would be able to get through those questions in 90 seconds or so. It's the more difficult questions where mastery starts to grow the gap.

Jonathan Wang

I always read every answer choice, because that's how I catch my errors. The goal here is not to find ways to cut out portions of the process - it's to know the material well enough that you can do everything the way it's supposed to be done, and still be within the time limit.

Even when I go "top down", I confirm every other answer choice is incorrect. I suppose that means that I technically POE on every question, but as used in the video I meant that I wasn't able to immediately identify the correct answer choice my first time through. In other words, there was a non-zero amount of doubt on one or more answer choices that caused me to look back and run the logic again. I never use 'pure' POE and I think it's a terrible strategy and a crutch. If you can't justify your answer choice, then what basis do you have for eliminating the others? It might get you the correct answer, but that doesn't mean you understood the question or the logic underlying.

I remember recording this guy pretty close in time to 65's release, as part of an experiment in what a series like this might look like. I (perhaps wrongly?) assumed that nobody would be interested in what I perceived to be a relatively boring end-product video. So, it got backburnered as other things started to happen around PreProBono, 7Sage, and my own tutoring business. I only uploaded it to YouTube by request of a student, who was taking the June 2012 test and had just taken 65 as a full-length practice test (hence the May upload date). By now, you're 100% correct - I've seen a lot of those questions more times than I care to remember.

The last time this came up, I toyed with the idea of making more, but then I got busy again and never revisited the idea.

DumbHollywoodActor

@"Jonathan Wang" As someone whose BR score is close to 99th percentile but whose actual score is in the 63rd percentile, I find these real-time test-taking videos very illuminating. I have a fairly good understanding of the test, I just can't perform that understanding in a timed context yet.

The lack of POE is a revelation to me, as is the cleanness of your test. In contrast, I mark up my test like a serial killer. So that is something I'm going to start drilling in the hopes of shaving time off of my process.

So I hope that you continue to make these videos, perhaps with a play-by-play audio done after the fact, like JY does, of your thought processes. I think they would be exceptionally helpful. Thanks.

Alejandro

What does POE actually stand for? Sorry for my ignorance, I'm an idiot, etc. etc. etc. i know

brna0714

@alejoroarios - process of elimination.

DumbHollywoodActor

Process Of Elimination

Alejandro

Thanks!

nicole.hopkins

@"Jonathan Wang" said:
I (perhaps wrongly?) assumed that nobody would be interested in what I perceived to be a relatively boring end-product video.

I am slightly obsessed with (this type of) video and would love to see more. Especially for RC and LR.

J.Y. Ping

Whoops, I left out some from my previous post. Here's the full list of live videos, some with commentary:

LG | 23, 35, 37, 71
RC | 5, 6, 70
LR | 69 S1, 69 S4, 71 S1, 71 S3

Since these videos contain licensed content from LSAC, you'll have to have a paid account to access them. They're located on the same page as where you'd normally find the explanation videos. Easiest way to navigate to them is via the LG Explanation Page and scroll down (after you're logged in):
7sage.com/logic-game-explanations/

DumbHollywoodActor

Awesome! Thanks, JY!

nicole.hopkins

J.Y. Ping

Updated my comment above to include PT 5 and PT 6's RC sections which have live versions. I'm 95% sure that's the final list for now.

You probably want to check those out since they're earlier PTs and won't ruin your PTs for timed runs.

nicole.hopkins

nicole.hopkins

Oh yeah. Watching this made me real happy.

http://7sage.com/lsat_explanations/lsat-70-section-2-passage-1-passage/

Couple of things noted:

—In the read, referring back to first paragraph/tying elements in later paragraphs back to intro
—Lots of tactile cues (pointing, emphatic circling, "air tracing" lines with pencil tip); plenty of this in the Q's as well as the read
—For passage part/term usage Q's, reading a few lines above/below
—Marking out the text of the AC's instead of just the letter

~3:30 for the read and an average of 30 seconds per Q, by my math, for a total of 7:07. Just want to note that a thorough/proper read encourages swiftness in the Q's—just like spending more time diagramming/drawing inferences in LG enables swiftness in the Q's.

J.Y. Ping

@nicole.hopkins said:
Just want to note that a thorough/proper read encourages swiftness in the Q's—just like spending more time diagramming/drawing inferences in LG enables swiftness in the Q's.

I've always found that to be the "comfort zone" in RC. Otherwise, I'm a bit nervous.

DumbHollywoodActor

For BR group

Shirley Z.

Can someone please upload a video showing a sage doing one RC section under test condition since I don't have access to PT 70? Just a similar video Jonathan did for the LR section. So far, I can only finish 3 passages, so I was wondering wether I am doing too much noting on the passage when I read. I want to see how the sage approach the passages. Thanks a lot!

DumbHollywoodActor

HI @"Shirley Z." Go to one of the Logic games explanation in PT 5, then scroll down and pick one of the reading comps. In each one is a video of JY doing it in real time. Same for PT 6

Shirley Z.

@DumbHollywoodActor Great, found it! Thank you for your help!

jyang72

Looking at how Masters crack the LSAT is always encouraging!!!

ltownsjr

That's freakin awesome! I've actually seen Johnathan's example on YouTube and it was extremely helpful for me personally to see the process in real time... Can't wait to see the other videos. I think some of us are just visual people. While the lessons help you get familiarized with the concepts/ideas, there is really nothing like watching a professional going through the process in real time. It helps to get you in the mindset of someone who has done really well. I hope you guys consider making these videos a part of your curriculum if you have not already. Extremely helpful.

LARamsNation

wow what a beast

Ron Swanson

In light of Corey's webinar on time management skills I want to bump this thread back to the top of the forums. This video of Jonathan working through the section, and his commentary after, just reinforces what Corey and Nicole spoke about during the webinar. Good stuff!

stepharizona

Wow, I've never seen this @"Ron Swanson" thank you for bumping it!

BruiserWoods

My heart started racing imagining how fast my brain would have to work for that time.

DumbHollywoodActor

Jonathan Wang: Straight Outta Pre-phrase

Nicole Hopkins

@BruiserWoods said:
My heart started racing imagining how fast my brain would have to work for that time.

Nah—you'll surprise yourself. It takes a lot of time, though. A lot of time. Keep in mind that folks like Jon and JY have been doing LSAT in some capacity for about 10 years. I didn't start going 25-in-25 until I'd been neck deep in LSAT for about a year and a half.

BruiserWoods

@"Nicole Hopkins" said:
I'd been neck deep in LSAT for about a year and a half.

rollin up on a year and 3 months rn *scared face*

lschoolgo

It'd be amazing if a guru could do such a video with never-before-seen PT-77 RC/LR.

Inspiring to see that it's humanly possible to do an fresh unseen rc/lr section within 20 mins

Nicole Hopkins

@lschoolgo said:
never-before-seen PT-77 RC/LR.

@c.janson35 is going to do just this!

BruiserWoods

Reviving this thread b/c everyone needs to see @"Jonathan Wang" in action & watch masters do the thing you're welcome

DumbHollywoodActor

@BruiserWoods said:
watch masters do the thing

I would also check out PT37. There’s a great video of a high-scorer going through the test, skipping questions like a crazy person. It’s awesome. https://7sage.com/lesson/preptest-37-preface-to-live-commentary-videos/

BruiserWoods

do crazy persons skip questions at a higher rate than not crazy persons? If so, I demand a crazy person refund.
Thanks @DumbHollywoodActor

twssmith

bump:)

nessa.k13.0

Thanks @twssmith this thread is so helpful!

Alex

@nessa.k13.0 said:
Thanks @twssmith this thread is so helpful!

Amazing stuff!