In plain English. Plaintiff's argument hinges on being SC. Judge states "Say you are SC, it is necessarily true that you are contained in the superset (I) of people discriminated against based on an immutable characteristic".
SC -> I
Judge Argues:
"I do not have sufficient proof to say that being gay is an immutable characteristic"
@StarBrooks I may be mistaken but I believe that the superset is actually "an immutable characteristic" because that condition must be met to be in the Suspect Class (the subset). It does not say that all immutable characteristic must be in the suspect class. Just like in the earlier example where you MUST live in the US (the superset) if you live in NYC (the subset).
Because Homosexuality is not in the superset, it cannot be in the subset. It is outside of the circles altogether.
Does that make sense? Someone correct me if I'm wrong as well.
I feel like this is still confusing to understand, any suggestions as there were a lot of words that can be confusing to understand? For every conditional argument, does there need to be a "/" (Not) aka a contrapositive section for all these arguments going forward?
I got I -> SC because I read it as if it's an immutable trait, then they qualify for the suspect class. Can someone please explain better why it's SC -> I?
@Laylay when I read "plantiffs make a showing ...", i thought there could be a possibility for them not to qualify. It is necessary to "make a showing..", but that doesn't mean you qualify or suffice to qualify for equal protection analysis. Maybe the court doesn't like the reasoning you came up with.
@Danaizha Yeah after doing some more lessons I think I've got it now. So when I originally looked at I thought of it as you need an immutable trait to then qualify for the suspect class. That reasoning is correct but you cannot write it as I -> SC, because the immutable trait is the necessary condition so the necessary condition must go on the left of the arrow (so it should be SC -> I).
I see a lot of comments complaining about the complexity and the fact that there is no video. Don't give up! What helped me was identifying the conditional premise (the first sentence sets up the rules of the game, that's how I think through it), then seeing the author state we don't have the necessary condition (plaintiff makes a showing that X characteristic of Y class is an immutable trait), and thus it is not possible for us to have the sufficient condition as well (membership in suspect class).
I hope this helps, I may have messed up with the language of the premises so take that with a grain of salt. Keep at it guys and don't give up!!
If you can, study partners or even someone to talk to along this journey helps a ton.
@ryokace In order for the plaintiff to qualify for suspect class they need an immutable trait. Homosexuality is not an immutable trait, therefore they do not qualify.
@MRod Aka membership in the suspect class is sufficient for an immutable trait but not necessary. Membership in as a immutable trait is necessary for the suspect class
To qualify as a suspect class for purposes of equal protection analysis, plaintiffs must make a showing that the characteristic defining the class is an immutable trait. Plaintiffs have not cited any authority to support the conclusion that homosexuality is an immutable characteristic. The court therefore declines to find that plaintiffs constitute a suspect class.
Can you say an additional assumption that the judge makes is that they are assuming plaintiffs have not cited any authority to support the conclusion that another characteristic is an immutable characteristic? Other than homosexuality?
My breakdown (Long winded, mainly for my self but feel free to read if it helps)
Suspect class is the sufficient condition here, and plaintiffs making a showing is the necessary condition.
Membership in the suspect class is sufficient to be part of the plaintiffs making a showing class, but it is not necessary as there are other ways that one can make a showing that the characteristic's defining the class is an immutable trait.
The reverse of this that helps me further understand is that: Membership in plaintiffs making a showing is necessary to be part of the suspect class (sufficient condition), but it is not good enough (sufficient) because there could be more things you need to check in order for you to get into that smaller bubble of the suspect class.
The second sentence is where we see the contrapositive of "X is not a member of set B". This is shown by the sentence saying "Plaintiffs have not cited any authority to support the conclusion that homosexuality is an immutable characteristic". Basically to be part of B we need to show that characteristic's defining the class are immutable, and then the second sentence say "well, you actually haven't shown any characteristic defining the class (homosexuality I think) as an immutable.
This is finally ties back into the final sentence in the form of "If not B (Superset) than not a member of A (Subset). How is this shown? The court basically said "oh you don't have membership in set B (the superset), so we cant give you membership into set A (The subset)
Membership in set B being characteristics to define the class as immutable, and membership in set A being to qualify as a suspect class
@kaleighh.04 do the exponent form is only used when the premises illustrate a set! in this case homosexuality(h) is a superset of the subset of "plantiff make a showing that homosexuality is a immutable trait trait"
@BrianShellenberger I ran into the same issue. I believe the instructor wrote "SC -> I" because that is the form of the conditional premise. Writing "/I -> /SC" would mean that the conditional premise (first sentence) would be:
"To not possess an immutable trait, plaintiffs must not qualify as a suspect class."
I'm not understanding how they mapped it out SC->I because I started with I -> SC? Can someone explain how this was done. I saw another comment about it but still did not understand.
@Williamh I made the same mistake too! The way I understood it is that MUST signals a requirement, so I is a necessary condition. The sentence didn't say "if SC then I". It said I is necessary for SC to happen, hence SC->I
@Williamh Visualize them as subsets and supersets. For it to be a special class, it must be immutable i.e., the special class has to be immutable, but just because it is immutable, does not mean it has to classify as a special class.
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106 comments
i got it right omg!!! i feel so good
@mostxareyallyarezthusmostxarez SAME AHHHHH
In plain English. Plaintiff's argument hinges on being SC. Judge states "Say you are SC, it is necessarily true that you are contained in the superset (I) of people discriminated against based on an immutable characteristic".
SC -> I
Judge Argues:
"I do not have sufficient proof to say that being gay is an immutable characteristic"
and
Not providing evidence for I = /I
It follows that /I -> /SC
I cant believe I got hat right
100th comment.
So if this were drawn out, the bigger circle (superset) would be SC, and the smaller circle (subset) would be I..and homosexuality would be where???🥲
@StarBrooks I may be mistaken but I believe that the superset is actually "an immutable characteristic" because that condition must be met to be in the Suspect Class (the subset). It does not say that all immutable characteristic must be in the suspect class. Just like in the earlier example where you MUST live in the US (the superset) if you live in NYC (the subset).
Because Homosexuality is not in the superset, it cannot be in the subset. It is outside of the circles altogether.
Does that make sense? Someone correct me if I'm wrong as well.
@SavanahHoffstein okay yes this does make senseee, thank youuuu
the visual circle is easier here.
I feel like this is still confusing to understand, any suggestions as there were a lot of words that can be confusing to understand? For every conditional argument, does there need to be a "/" (Not) aka a contrapositive section for all these arguments going forward?
I was beating myself up for confusing the sufficient and necessary in the first sentence.
The word "must" triggers the necessary.
This example helped me understand:
To enter the bar, you MUST be 21.
o If you are inside the bar--> you are 21
x If you are 21--> you are in the bar
I got I -> SC because I read it as if it's an immutable trait, then they qualify for the suspect class. Can someone please explain better why it's SC -> I?
@Laylay when I read "plantiffs make a showing ...", i thought there could be a possibility for them not to qualify. It is necessary to "make a showing..", but that doesn't mean you qualify or suffice to qualify for equal protection analysis. Maybe the court doesn't like the reasoning you came up with.
@Danaizha Yeah after doing some more lessons I think I've got it now. So when I originally looked at I thought of it as you need an immutable trait to then qualify for the suspect class. That reasoning is correct but you cannot write it as I -> SC, because the immutable trait is the necessary condition so the necessary condition must go on the left of the arrow (so it should be SC -> I).
@Laylay i thought necessary condition was always in the right?
I see a lot of comments complaining about the complexity and the fact that there is no video. Don't give up! What helped me was identifying the conditional premise (the first sentence sets up the rules of the game, that's how I think through it), then seeing the author state we don't have the necessary condition (plaintiff makes a showing that X characteristic of Y class is an immutable trait), and thus it is not possible for us to have the sufficient condition as well (membership in suspect class).
I hope this helps, I may have messed up with the language of the premises so take that with a grain of salt. Keep at it guys and don't give up!!
If you can, study partners or even someone to talk to along this journey helps a ton.
Could someone please break it down? I can't seem to understand this example
@ryokace In order for the plaintiff to qualify for suspect class they need an immutable trait. Homosexuality is not an immutable trait, therefore they do not qualify.
SC -> I (suspect class equals immutable trait)
h/I (homosexuality is not immutable)
--------------------------------------
h/SC (homosexuality is not suspect class)
@JJR Thank you!
hi, is there a place on the site in which I can practice these?
I'm digesting the material but still need some practice.
SC -> I
h/I
-----
h/SC
@MRod Aka membership in the suspect class is sufficient for an immutable trait but not necessary. Membership in as a immutable trait is necessary for the suspect class
To qualify as a suspect class for purposes of equal protection analysis, plaintiffs must make a showing that the characteristic defining the class is an immutable trait. Plaintiffs have not cited any authority to support the conclusion that homosexuality is an immutable characteristic. The court therefore declines to find that plaintiffs constitute a suspect class.
SC --> I
h/I
h/SC
Can you say an additional assumption that the judge makes is that they are assuming plaintiffs have not cited any authority to support the conclusion that another characteristic is an immutable characteristic? Other than homosexuality?
My breakdown (Long winded, mainly for my self but feel free to read if it helps)
Suspect class is the sufficient condition here, and plaintiffs making a showing is the necessary condition.
Membership in the suspect class is sufficient to be part of the plaintiffs making a showing class, but it is not necessary as there are other ways that one can make a showing that the characteristic's defining the class is an immutable trait.
The reverse of this that helps me further understand is that: Membership in plaintiffs making a showing is necessary to be part of the suspect class (sufficient condition), but it is not good enough (sufficient) because there could be more things you need to check in order for you to get into that smaller bubble of the suspect class.
The second sentence is where we see the contrapositive of "X is not a member of set B". This is shown by the sentence saying "Plaintiffs have not cited any authority to support the conclusion that homosexuality is an immutable characteristic". Basically to be part of B we need to show that characteristic's defining the class are immutable, and then the second sentence say "well, you actually haven't shown any characteristic defining the class (homosexuality I think) as an immutable.
This is finally ties back into the final sentence in the form of "If not B (Superset) than not a member of A (Subset). How is this shown? The court basically said "oh you don't have membership in set B (the superset), so we cant give you membership into set A (The subset)
Membership in set B being characteristics to define the class as immutable, and membership in set A being to qualify as a suspect class
yeah im cooked for sure
@KeziaH19 felt lol
@KeziaH19 girl me too
@KeziaH19 felt
Ok I am so confused.
For some reason I did..
SC -> I
/h -> I
/I -> SC
how do you know not to do the arrows and to make it in exponent form?
@kaleighh.04 you missed a lesson i think
@kaleighh.04 do the exponent form is only used when the premises illustrate a set! in this case homosexuality(h) is a superset of the subset of "plantiff make a showing that homosexuality is a immutable trait trait"
Am I dissecting this correctly? :
Necessary Condition: I
Sufficient Condition: SC
So the Lawgic would be:
SC->I
hSC
-----
hI.
However, since the plaintiff didn't satisfy the necessary condition of 'I', the contrapositive would be...
/I-> /SC
h/I
----
h/SC.
I guess I'm getting hung up on the notation of the
SC-> I
h/I
----
h/SC.
Are you combining the two notations into one?
@BrianShellenberger I ran into the same issue. I believe the instructor wrote "SC -> I" because that is the form of the conditional premise. Writing "/I -> /SC" would mean that the conditional premise (first sentence) would be:
"To not possess an immutable trait, plaintiffs must not qualify as a suspect class."
I didn’t like this example it was extremely confusing…
@A'mariePollard same and the fact theres no video either like
In order to be a rock climber, one must be an athlete. One is not an athlete, therefore one is not a rock climber.
@DrewBecker If R --> A. /A, therefore /R
QS --> SIT
They did not SIT.
/SIT --> /QS.
P/SIT.
Conclusion: /QS.
To get into Harvard, you must submit an application.
This doesn't mean if you submit an application, you'll get into Harvard.
Harvard Student -> Submitted Application
I'm not understanding how they mapped it out SC->I because I started with I -> SC? Can someone explain how this was done. I saw another comment about it but still did not understand.
@Williamh I made the same mistake too! The way I understood it is that MUST signals a requirement, so I is a necessary condition. The sentence didn't say "if SC then I". It said I is necessary for SC to happen, hence SC->I
@Williamh Visualize them as subsets and supersets. For it to be a special class, it must be immutable i.e., the special class has to be immutable, but just because it is immutable, does not mean it has to classify as a special class.
Immutable is superset
Social class is a subset of immutable.