5/5 oh my god it is finally clicking; my every brain keeps kicking in halfway through while my lsat brain is processing things and ive gotten better at turning that part off and staying true to what i am learning
It all has to do with the meaning of the indicators themselves, and what they imply. The difference is highly important because for example, if you were to say "I will not shower unless I eat something first", and you correctly negated the sufficient, you would get the answer:
Shower --> Eat something first
/Eat something first --> /Shower
If I tried to negate the necessary instead, I would end up with the following:
/Shower --> /Eat something first
Eat something first --> Shower
As you can see, mistakenly applying the wrong rules gets you results that confuse the sufficient for the necessary. It entirely hinges on the word 'unless'.
In my example, "I will not shower unless I eat something first", I can rephrase it in my mind to say:
If I do not eat something first, then I will not take a shower. OR I will take a shower only if I eat something first.
As you can see, this is the same as our correct translations from above, where we negated the sufficient.
It would not make sense to try to rephrase it to say something like,
If I eat something first, I will take a shower.
For all we know, I could eat something and still chose to not take a shower. But we know for a fact that if I do shower, then I did eat something first.
In one of our examples from this lesson, "Lazy cats never develop heart disease",
I can rephrase it in my mind to mean "If I am a lazy cat then I will not develop heart disease", "All lazy cats do not develop heart disease", etc.
As you can see, I am negating the necessary when I am rephrasing this in my mind, and this is entirely because of what the word 'never' is implying in the sentence.
I notice for Q2 in the contrapositive, "within august--/holiday", neither part has parenthesis, when the other problems do? Can someone explain this? Some problems have them while others don't?
@AjaySharma no! It doesn't matter which you put where. The only thing you MUST do is negate the necessary! That's why the rule says to pick either one, because they become the contrapositives of each other, producing the same logical conclusion.
I would like to share an additional quick-and-dirty rule/trick that will be helpful.
"NOT...UNLESS":
Let's say you have "Not" and later in the sentence have "Unless".
Like this: Not A, Unless B." Rather than going through the rules, just remember that "Not... Unless" is the same as A --> B. So, "Not A, Unless B" = "A--->B." You can replace "Unless" with any other Group 3 indicator and the rule works the same way.
"UNLESS...NOT":
There is a similar procedure if the order is flipped. If you have "Unless A, Not B" that becomes /A--->/B. Or the contrapositive, B--->A. You can again replace "Unless" with "Without" or any other Group 3 indicator and the procedure is the same.
I feel like question # 4contradicts what we were talking about in previous lessons. How can it be that /MP --> MC. I feel like it that were the case then the statement would be "Mesopotamian city's were the ONLY ones to not have a market place..." Because other cities could also not have market places, just like we talked about with confusing negation with opposition(opposite of hot isn't just cold). Can someone help me better understand this?
What consistutes the difference between the word "no," for example, being grounds for a negation or a conditional indicator in group four. How do I decifer that
@trinityoneilll So I believe the key here is differentiating between words. "No" "Cannot" "None" "Never" = GROUP 4 (Negate Necessary). But "NOT" is just regular, plain-old negation. In your question, "No" would be a group 4 indicator, and not a regular negation. Regular negation usually comes from the word "Not."
Example:
1) If not A, then B = /A ---> B. This is plain-old, regular negation of a condition by using "Not."
2) No A's are B = A ---> /B. This is Group 4, negating whatever you choose as the necessary condition. The reason it is Group 4 is because we see the indicator word "No." And the word "No" (Group 4) is different than the word "Not" (regular negation).
Hope that helps! If I'm wrong, someone feel free to correct me.
@180-Energy hi :) looks like you negated the sufficient instead of negating the necessary
For group 4, whichever one you pick to negate it’s going to be the necessary.
A -> /B
A is the sufficient and B is the necessary.
Sufficient will always go on the left of the arrow and necessary will always go on the right.
I hope this was helpful, this stuff really tripped me up the first time I did this course, redoing it and memorizing the indicator words and their corresponding rules has really helped me
I study by memorizing the steps here is my work if it helps others with the same study style as mine:
Question 1: “Lazy cats never develop heart disease”
Step 1: Find Indicator: “never”
Step 2: Identify Ideas: lazy cats vs. never developed heart disease.
Step 3: Apply symbols to these ideas: (LC) → (/HD)
Step 4: Apply the Translation Rule: (LC) → (/HD)
NEGATE (HD) → (/LC)
Question 2: “No holiday falls within the month of August”
Step 1: Find Indicator: “NO” from group 4 indicator words.
Step 2: Identify the Ideas: Holiday vs. Within the month of August.
Step 3: Apply Symbols to the ideas: (H) Holiday vs. (Within August).
Step 4: Apply the translation rule: (H) → (/within August)
NEGATE: (within August) → (/H)
Question 3: “No birds are trees.”
Step 1: Identify the indicator word and what group it’s in: “no” from group 4.
Step 2: Identify the ideas: Birds vs. Trees
Step 3: Apply symbols to these ideas: (B) vs. (T)
Step 4: Apply the translation rule: (Bird) → (/Tree)
NEGATE: (Tree) → (/Bird)
Question 4: “Mesopotamian cities never had marketplaces.”
Step 1: “Never” Group 4
Step 2: Mesopotamia cities vs. Marketplace
Step 3: (MC) vs. (MP)
Step 4: (MC) → (/MP)
NEGATE: (MP) → (/MC)
Question 5: “None of the recent technological advances in producing electric power at photovoltaic plants can be applied to producing power at traditional plants”
1. “None” Group 4
2. Recent Technological advancements at Photovoltaic vs. Cannot be applied to traditional plants.
This was honestly my biggest issue (negating words and knowing suf or nec based on them) on my first LSAT. I can't wait to go to longer logical chains, and see the strategies there.
@JodiChan no its not correct. No falls into group 4. The translation rule is negate the necessary condition. The right side of the arrow is always the necessary condition. You negated the sufficient. If your answer is not one of the two in the answer key, your argument is not logically equivalent. You unfortunately committed the oldest mistake in the book. But you are still very early in the curriculum and it will get easier! I finished the curriculum and am returning to the basics to solidify my understanding in order to improve on Must be true questions. Its super important you understand these concepts.
@Laylay But you negate it make the necessary condition. The necessary condition is the "then" part of a conditional statement. So the statement means "If it's a holiday --> then it's NOT within August" and "If it's August --> then there's no holiday"
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228 comments
5/5 It's pretty easy right now worried how it will translate to actual LR questions, anybody else ?
@HWalls2027 same i just don't get why this is important to it all
5/5 - question 1 almost had me, but I caught myself thinking, it doesn't need to make sense it just needs to follow the formula.
5/5 oh my god it is finally clicking; my every brain keeps kicking in halfway through while my lsat brain is processing things and ive gotten better at turning that part off and staying true to what i am learning
For whatever reason, I have been writing the contrapositive first when turning them into logic. I wonder why.
Can someone explain the difference between negate sufficient and negate necessary? They seem very similar to me :/
@MGonz6
It all has to do with the meaning of the indicators themselves, and what they imply. The difference is highly important because for example, if you were to say "I will not shower unless I eat something first", and you correctly negated the sufficient, you would get the answer:
Shower --> Eat something first
/Eat something first --> /Shower
If I tried to negate the necessary instead, I would end up with the following:
/Shower --> /Eat something first
Eat something first --> Shower
As you can see, mistakenly applying the wrong rules gets you results that confuse the sufficient for the necessary. It entirely hinges on the word 'unless'.
In my example, "I will not shower unless I eat something first", I can rephrase it in my mind to say:
If I do not eat something first, then I will not take a shower. OR I will take a shower only if I eat something first.
As you can see, this is the same as our correct translations from above, where we negated the sufficient.
It would not make sense to try to rephrase it to say something like,
If I eat something first, I will take a shower.
For all we know, I could eat something and still chose to not take a shower. But we know for a fact that if I do shower, then I did eat something first.
In one of our examples from this lesson, "Lazy cats never develop heart disease",
I can rephrase it in my mind to mean "If I am a lazy cat then I will not develop heart disease", "All lazy cats do not develop heart disease", etc.
As you can see, I am negating the necessary when I am rephrasing this in my mind, and this is entirely because of what the word 'never' is implying in the sentence.
I hope this helps!
I notice for Q2 in the contrapositive, "within august--/holiday", neither part has parenthesis, when the other problems do? Can someone explain this? Some problems have them while others don't?
@KayMM I believe that the parenthesis is only necessary when there is more than one word that is being negated
when it comes to negate necessary, does it matter which idea I put down as "sufficent" or "necessary"?
@AjaySharma no! It doesn't matter which you put where. The only thing you MUST do is negate the necessary! That's why the rule says to pick either one, because they become the contrapositives of each other, producing the same logical conclusion.
for question 5, is there a difference if i say APP -> /A and A -> /APP, in that order?
@hibahkhan No, those two statements are logically equivalent to one another.
this is light work... so far
5/5!!! YAY!
I actually found it easier that
None of A are B to mean that
A → /B
When encountering a NEVER or CANNOT
A CANNOT/NEVER be B
I translate it to No A can be B
the cannot/never after the A becomes a "no" in front of A
Which just goes to
A → /B
I struggled with this conept for a while and I can't get over how easily you all simplified this!!!!!
I made flash cards to help memorize group 1-4 conditional indicators, thought I’d share in case it would be helpful to anyone else. I’m redoing this course after getting through most of it and taking the lsat and not doing as well as I hoped. Looking back I realize how important it is to know these. https://quizlet.com/1153975729/lsat-7sage-conditional-indicators-to-share-flash-cards/?i=71yhg9&x=1jqY
I would like to share an additional quick-and-dirty rule/trick that will be helpful.
"NOT...UNLESS":
Let's say you have "Not" and later in the sentence have "Unless".
Like this: Not A, Unless B." Rather than going through the rules, just remember that "Not... Unless" is the same as A --> B. So, "Not A, Unless B" = "A--->B." You can replace "Unless" with any other Group 3 indicator and the rule works the same way.
"UNLESS...NOT":
There is a similar procedure if the order is flipped. If you have "Unless A, Not B" that becomes /A--->/B. Or the contrapositive, B--->A. You can again replace "Unless" with "Without" or any other Group 3 indicator and the procedure is the same.
I feel like question # 4contradicts what we were talking about in previous lessons. How can it be that /MP --> MC. I feel like it that were the case then the statement would be "Mesopotamian city's were the ONLY ones to not have a market place..." Because other cities could also not have market places, just like we talked about with confusing negation with opposition(opposite of hot isn't just cold). Can someone help me better understand this?
What consistutes the difference between the word "no," for example, being grounds for a negation or a conditional indicator in group four. How do I decifer that
@trinityoneilll So I believe the key here is differentiating between words. "No" "Cannot" "None" "Never" = GROUP 4 (Negate Necessary). But "NOT" is just regular, plain-old negation. In your question, "No" would be a group 4 indicator, and not a regular negation. Regular negation usually comes from the word "Not."
Example:
1) If not A, then B = /A ---> B. This is plain-old, regular negation of a condition by using "Not."
2) No A's are B = A ---> /B. This is Group 4, negating whatever you choose as the necessary condition. The reason it is Group 4 is because we see the indicator word "No." And the word "No" (Group 4) is different than the word "Not" (regular negation).
Hope that helps! If I'm wrong, someone feel free to correct me.
Question 2:
Please explain why this is incorrect.
No holiday falls within the month of August.
/ holiday -> fall in aug
/ fall in aug -> holiday
@180-Energy hi :) looks like you negated the sufficient instead of negating the necessary
For group 4, whichever one you pick to negate it’s going to be the necessary.
A -> /B
A is the sufficient and B is the necessary.
Sufficient will always go on the left of the arrow and necessary will always go on the right.
I hope this was helpful, this stuff really tripped me up the first time I did this course, redoing it and memorizing the indicator words and their corresponding rules has really helped me
Holiday -> /fall in August
Fall in August -> /holiday
why couldn't 3 be bird → /tree
tree → /bird ?
@PiperLee it was,
the answer for #3 is
bird → /tree
tree → /bird
I study by memorizing the steps here is my work if it helps others with the same study style as mine:
Question 1: “Lazy cats never develop heart disease”
Step 1: Find Indicator: “never”
Step 2: Identify Ideas: lazy cats vs. never developed heart disease.
Step 3: Apply symbols to these ideas: (LC) → (/HD)
Step 4: Apply the Translation Rule: (LC) → (/HD)
NEGATE (HD) → (/LC)
Question 2: “No holiday falls within the month of August”
Step 1: Find Indicator: “NO” from group 4 indicator words.
Step 2: Identify the Ideas: Holiday vs. Within the month of August.
Step 3: Apply Symbols to the ideas: (H) Holiday vs. (Within August).
Step 4: Apply the translation rule: (H) → (/within August)
NEGATE: (within August) → (/H)
Question 3: “No birds are trees.”
Step 1: Identify the indicator word and what group it’s in: “no” from group 4.
Step 2: Identify the ideas: Birds vs. Trees
Step 3: Apply symbols to these ideas: (B) vs. (T)
Step 4: Apply the translation rule: (Bird) → (/Tree)
NEGATE: (Tree) → (/Bird)
Question 4: “Mesopotamian cities never had marketplaces.”
Step 1: “Never” Group 4
Step 2: Mesopotamia cities vs. Marketplace
Step 3: (MC) vs. (MP)
Step 4: (MC) → (/MP)
NEGATE: (MP) → (/MC)
Question 5: “None of the recent technological advances in producing electric power at photovoltaic plants can be applied to producing power at traditional plants”
1. “None” Group 4
2. Recent Technological advancements at Photovoltaic vs. Cannot be applied to traditional plants.
3. (RTAP) VS. (/ATP)
4. (RTAP) → (/ATP)
NEGATE: (ATP) → (/RTAP)
GOOD LUCK !!!!
This one feels so much more intuitive than the group 3 indicators.
This was honestly my biggest issue (negating words and knowing suf or nec based on them) on my first LSAT. I can't wait to go to longer logical chains, and see the strategies there.
These feel more intuitive than the previous group
So is Never officially part of group 4??
5/5!
if question 2, i said
/holiday - august
/august - holiday
is that correct?
@JodiChan I think that this is incorrect because it infers information that we are not given about what happens in the "not august" condition.
Your example would argue that if it is "not august" then there must "be a holiday", and we don't know that from the prompt.
@JodiChan no its not correct. No falls into group 4. The translation rule is negate the necessary condition. The right side of the arrow is always the necessary condition. You negated the sufficient. If your answer is not one of the two in the answer key, your argument is not logically equivalent. You unfortunately committed the oldest mistake in the book. But you are still very early in the curriculum and it will get easier! I finished the curriculum and am returning to the basics to solidify my understanding in order to improve on Must be true questions. Its super important you understand these concepts.
@aleiapierre123 But he literally said you could pick either idea and negate that idea in the lesson video..
@Laylay But you negate it make the necessary condition. The necessary condition is the "then" part of a conditional statement. So the statement means "If it's a holiday --> then it's NOT within August" and "If it's August --> then there's no holiday"