I would like to share an additional quick-and-dirty rule/trick that will be helpful.
"NOT...UNLESS":
Let's say you have "Not" and later in the sentence have "Unless".
Like this: Not A, Unless B." Rather than going through the rules, just remember that "Not... Unless" is the same as A --> B. So, "Not A, Unless B" = "A--->B." You can replace "Unless" with any other Group 3 indicator and the rule works the same way.
"UNLESS...NOT":
There is a similar procedure if the order is flipped. If you have "Unless A, Not B" that becomes /A--->/B. Or the contrapositive, B--->A. You can again replace "Unless" with "Without" or any other Group 3 indicator and the procedure is the same.
I feel like question # 4contradicts what we were talking about in previous lessons. How can it be that /MP --> MC. I feel like it that were the case then the statement would be "Mesopotamian city's were the ONLY ones to not have a market place..." Because other cities could also not have market places, just like we talked about with confusing negation with opposition(opposite of hot isn't just cold). Can someone help me better understand this?
What consistutes the difference between the word "no," for example, being grounds for a negation or a conditional indicator in group four. How do I decifer that
@trinityoneilll So I believe the key here is differentiating between words. "No" "Cannot" "None" "Never" = GROUP 4 (Negate Necessary). But "NOT" is just regular, plain-old negation. In your question, "No" would be a group 4 indicator, and not a regular negation. Regular negation usually comes from the word "Not."
Example:
1) If not A, then B = /A ---> B. This is plain-old, regular negation of a condition by using "Not."
2) No A's are B = A ---> /B. This is Group 4, negating whatever you choose as the necessary condition. The reason it is Group 4 is because we see the indicator word "No." And the word "No" (Group 4) is different than the word "Not" (regular negation).
Hope that helps! If I'm wrong, someone feel free to correct me.
@180-Energy hi :) looks like you negated the sufficient instead of negating the necessary
For group 4, whichever one you pick to negate it’s going to be the necessary.
A -> /B
A is the sufficient and B is the necessary.
Sufficient will always go on the left of the arrow and necessary will always go on the right.
I hope this was helpful, this stuff really tripped me up the first time I did this course, redoing it and memorizing the indicator words and their corresponding rules has really helped me
I study by memorizing the steps here is my work if it helps others with the same study style as mine:
Question 1: “Lazy cats never develop heart disease”
Step 1: Find Indicator: “never”
Step 2: Identify Ideas: lazy cats vs. never developed heart disease.
Step 3: Apply symbols to these ideas: (LC) → (/HD)
Step 4: Apply the Translation Rule: (LC) → (/HD)
NEGATE (HD) → (/LC)
Question 2: “No holiday falls within the month of August”
Step 1: Find Indicator: “NO” from group 4 indicator words.
Step 2: Identify the Ideas: Holiday vs. Within the month of August.
Step 3: Apply Symbols to the ideas: (H) Holiday vs. (Within August).
Step 4: Apply the translation rule: (H) → (/within August)
NEGATE: (within August) → (/H)
Question 3: “No birds are trees.”
Step 1: Identify the indicator word and what group it’s in: “no” from group 4.
Step 2: Identify the ideas: Birds vs. Trees
Step 3: Apply symbols to these ideas: (B) vs. (T)
Step 4: Apply the translation rule: (Bird) → (/Tree)
NEGATE: (Tree) → (/Bird)
Question 4: “Mesopotamian cities never had marketplaces.”
Step 1: “Never” Group 4
Step 2: Mesopotamia cities vs. Marketplace
Step 3: (MC) vs. (MP)
Step 4: (MC) → (/MP)
NEGATE: (MP) → (/MC)
Question 5: “None of the recent technological advances in producing electric power at photovoltaic plants can be applied to producing power at traditional plants”
1. “None” Group 4
2. Recent Technological advancements at Photovoltaic vs. Cannot be applied to traditional plants.
This was honestly my biggest issue (negating words and knowing suf or nec based on them) on my first LSAT. I can't wait to go to longer logical chains, and see the strategies there.
@JodiChan no its not correct. No falls into group 4. The translation rule is negate the necessary condition. The right side of the arrow is always the necessary condition. You negated the sufficient. If your answer is not one of the two in the answer key, your argument is not logically equivalent. You unfortunately committed the oldest mistake in the book. But you are still very early in the curriculum and it will get easier! I finished the curriculum and am returning to the basics to solidify my understanding in order to improve on Must be true questions. Its super important you understand these concepts.
@Laylay But you negate it make the necessary condition. The necessary condition is the "then" part of a conditional statement. So the statement means "If it's a holiday --> then it's NOT within August" and "If it's August --> then there's no holiday"
I'm having trouble with the grammar in #5. I understand the subject and predicate. But it was difficult to hone in on 'Advances.' is there an easier way to break this sentence down?
@LincolnBrown I found the modifier lessons helpful here for slicing through the noise! Bolded words below are the core of the sentence, non-bolded words are modifiers.
None of the recent technological advances in producing electric power at photovoltaic plants can be applied to producing power at traditional plants.
(Maybe already stated, but I don't have time to read all these comments): "never" is not included as one of the common [negate, necessity] indicators but multiple examples use "never" in this exercise. Might be worth adding "never" to the list.
He did point out for Group 4 and other groups that the word lists are both “over inclusive” meaning they might also be used in other parts of “Lawgic”, and “under inclusive” meaning the lists are not all inclusive. There might be other words that count, depending on context.
So think of them as fuzzy lists, not exact lists.
I am on day three of my plan, and this is a lot to absorb. So you will probably be able to point out something I missed later on!
@mibuch I hope I'm seeing this correctly, but it looks like you got them right! Contrapositives are logically equal. It doesn't matter which one you come up with first.
#help T148 Section 3 problem 24 "manuscripts that are not frequently consulted by researchers will not be restored." I am very confused by whether to use condition one, i.e. sufficient or Condition four, negate necessary in this case, because the key word NOT as they generate different equation. The answer is using condition one obviously, utilizing conrapositive, to arrive at R->FC. But if I use Condition four, negate necessary, it becomes, FC->//R, thus /R->/FC, and you can never get R->FC from here. Can someone shine a light on this? I often found it is the negative and double negative that mess up my understanding and translating. Thank you!
For these group 4 indicators, I find it easier to go with the flow of the sentence (left to right) to be my sufficient and necessary (left to right) - so I always pick the second idea to negate and be the necessary condition first and "leave" the first idea on the left as the sufficient
For example: No holiday falls within the month of august.
I pick "within the month of august" to be the idea to negate.
I leave "holiday" alone in a sense - keeping it as my sufficient.
So -
Holiday --> /within the month of August.
It is easier for me to start here then flip things around and mess up the flow of the original sentence. I don't know if this is right of helpful but just how my brain works!
This made sense to me! I even noticed while I was doing the contrapositive for one of them how it didn't make ANY sense and corrected myself before looking! LOVE that it's actually clicking!
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217 comments
for question 5, is there a difference if i say APP -> /A and A -> /APP, in that order?
this is light work... so far
5/5!!! YAY!
I actually found it easier that
None of A are B to mean that
A → /B
When encountering a NEVER or CANNOT
A CANNOT/NEVER be B
I translate it to No A can be B
the cannot/never after the A becomes a "no" in front of A
Which just goes to
A → /B
I struggled with this conept for a while and I can't get over how easily you all simplified this!!!!!
I made flash cards to help memorize group 1-4 conditional indicators, thought I’d share in case it would be helpful to anyone else. I’m redoing this course after getting through most of it and taking the lsat and not doing as well as I hoped. Looking back I realize how important it is to know these. https://quizlet.com/1153975729/lsat-7sage-conditional-indicators-to-share-flash-cards/?i=71yhg9&x=1jqY
I would like to share an additional quick-and-dirty rule/trick that will be helpful.
"NOT...UNLESS":
Let's say you have "Not" and later in the sentence have "Unless".
Like this: Not A, Unless B." Rather than going through the rules, just remember that "Not... Unless" is the same as A --> B. So, "Not A, Unless B" = "A--->B." You can replace "Unless" with any other Group 3 indicator and the rule works the same way.
"UNLESS...NOT":
There is a similar procedure if the order is flipped. If you have "Unless A, Not B" that becomes /A--->/B. Or the contrapositive, B--->A. You can again replace "Unless" with "Without" or any other Group 3 indicator and the procedure is the same.
I feel like question # 4contradicts what we were talking about in previous lessons. How can it be that /MP --> MC. I feel like it that were the case then the statement would be "Mesopotamian city's were the ONLY ones to not have a market place..." Because other cities could also not have market places, just like we talked about with confusing negation with opposition(opposite of hot isn't just cold). Can someone help me better understand this?
What consistutes the difference between the word "no," for example, being grounds for a negation or a conditional indicator in group four. How do I decifer that
@trinityoneilll So I believe the key here is differentiating between words. "No" "Cannot" "None" "Never" = GROUP 4 (Negate Necessary). But "NOT" is just regular, plain-old negation. In your question, "No" would be a group 4 indicator, and not a regular negation. Regular negation usually comes from the word "Not."
Example:
1) If not A, then B = /A ---> B. This is plain-old, regular negation of a condition by using "Not."
2) No A's are B = A ---> /B. This is Group 4, negating whatever you choose as the necessary condition. The reason it is Group 4 is because we see the indicator word "No." And the word "No" (Group 4) is different than the word "Not" (regular negation).
Hope that helps! If I'm wrong, someone feel free to correct me.
Question 2:
Please explain why this is incorrect.
No holiday falls within the month of August.
/ holiday -> fall in aug
/ fall in aug -> holiday
@180-Energy hi :) looks like you negated the sufficient instead of negating the necessary
For group 4, whichever one you pick to negate it’s going to be the necessary.
A -> /B
A is the sufficient and B is the necessary.
Sufficient will always go on the left of the arrow and necessary will always go on the right.
I hope this was helpful, this stuff really tripped me up the first time I did this course, redoing it and memorizing the indicator words and their corresponding rules has really helped me
Holiday -> /fall in August
Fall in August -> /holiday
why couldn't 3 be bird → /tree
tree → /bird ?
@PiperLee it was,
the answer for #3 is
bird → /tree
tree → /bird
I study by memorizing the steps here is my work if it helps others with the same study style as mine:
Question 1: “Lazy cats never develop heart disease”
Step 1: Find Indicator: “never”
Step 2: Identify Ideas: lazy cats vs. never developed heart disease.
Step 3: Apply symbols to these ideas: (LC) → (/HD)
Step 4: Apply the Translation Rule: (LC) → (/HD)
NEGATE (HD) → (/LC)
Question 2: “No holiday falls within the month of August”
Step 1: Find Indicator: “NO” from group 4 indicator words.
Step 2: Identify the Ideas: Holiday vs. Within the month of August.
Step 3: Apply Symbols to the ideas: (H) Holiday vs. (Within August).
Step 4: Apply the translation rule: (H) → (/within August)
NEGATE: (within August) → (/H)
Question 3: “No birds are trees.”
Step 1: Identify the indicator word and what group it’s in: “no” from group 4.
Step 2: Identify the ideas: Birds vs. Trees
Step 3: Apply symbols to these ideas: (B) vs. (T)
Step 4: Apply the translation rule: (Bird) → (/Tree)
NEGATE: (Tree) → (/Bird)
Question 4: “Mesopotamian cities never had marketplaces.”
Step 1: “Never” Group 4
Step 2: Mesopotamia cities vs. Marketplace
Step 3: (MC) vs. (MP)
Step 4: (MC) → (/MP)
NEGATE: (MP) → (/MC)
Question 5: “None of the recent technological advances in producing electric power at photovoltaic plants can be applied to producing power at traditional plants”
1. “None” Group 4
2. Recent Technological advancements at Photovoltaic vs. Cannot be applied to traditional plants.
3. (RTAP) VS. (/ATP)
4. (RTAP) → (/ATP)
NEGATE: (ATP) → (/RTAP)
GOOD LUCK !!!!
This one feels so much more intuitive than the group 3 indicators.
This was honestly my biggest issue (negating words and knowing suf or nec based on them) on my first LSAT. I can't wait to go to longer logical chains, and see the strategies there.
These feel more intuitive than the previous group
So is Never officially part of group 4??
5/5!
if question 2, i said
/holiday - august
/august - holiday
is that correct?
@JodiChan I think that this is incorrect because it infers information that we are not given about what happens in the "not august" condition.
Your example would argue that if it is "not august" then there must "be a holiday", and we don't know that from the prompt.
@JodiChan no its not correct. No falls into group 4. The translation rule is negate the necessary condition. The right side of the arrow is always the necessary condition. You negated the sufficient. If your answer is not one of the two in the answer key, your argument is not logically equivalent. You unfortunately committed the oldest mistake in the book. But you are still very early in the curriculum and it will get easier! I finished the curriculum and am returning to the basics to solidify my understanding in order to improve on Must be true questions. Its super important you understand these concepts.
@aleiapierre123 But he literally said you could pick either idea and negate that idea in the lesson video..
@Laylay But you negate it make the necessary condition. The necessary condition is the "then" part of a conditional statement. So the statement means "If it's a holiday --> then it's NOT within August" and "If it's August --> then there's no holiday"
I'm having trouble with the grammar in #5. I understand the subject and predicate. But it was difficult to hone in on 'Advances.' is there an easier way to break this sentence down?
@LincolnBrown I found the modifier lessons helpful here for slicing through the noise! Bolded words below are the core of the sentence, non-bolded words are modifiers.
None of the recent technological advances in producing electric power at photovoltaic plants can be applied to producing power at traditional plants.
Advances -> /applied to producing power
applied to producing power -> /advances
Sufficient conditions:
if, when, where, all, every, any
Necessary conditions:
only, only if, only when, only where, always, must
Negate, sufficient:
or, unless, until, without
Negate, necessary:
no, none, not both, and cannot
(Maybe already stated, but I don't have time to read all these comments): "never" is not included as one of the common [negate, necessity] indicators but multiple examples use "never" in this exercise. Might be worth adding "never" to the list.
@JenKlem this why i came straight to the comments because "never" was not listed so i was confused as to where that came from
He did point out for Group 4 and other groups that the word lists are both “over inclusive” meaning they might also be used in other parts of “Lawgic”, and “under inclusive” meaning the lists are not all inclusive. There might be other words that count, depending on context.
So think of them as fuzzy lists, not exact lists.
I am on day three of my plan, and this is a lot to absorb. So you will probably be able to point out something I missed later on!
#help I got 0/5 because all of my answers were backwards.
For example, on question 3, the answer was:
But I put:
Why is this happening?
@mibuch I hope I'm seeing this correctly, but it looks like you got them right! Contrapositives are logically equal. It doesn't matter which one you come up with first.
@mibuch same I got them all backwards??
#help T148 Section 3 problem 24 "manuscripts that are not frequently consulted by researchers will not be restored." I am very confused by whether to use condition one, i.e. sufficient or Condition four, negate necessary in this case, because the key word NOT as they generate different equation. The answer is using condition one obviously, utilizing conrapositive, to arrive at R->FC. But if I use Condition four, negate necessary, it becomes, FC->//R, thus /R->/FC, and you can never get R->FC from here. Can someone shine a light on this? I often found it is the negative and double negative that mess up my understanding and translating. Thank you!
For these group 4 indicators, I find it easier to go with the flow of the sentence (left to right) to be my sufficient and necessary (left to right) - so I always pick the second idea to negate and be the necessary condition first and "leave" the first idea on the left as the sufficient
For example: No holiday falls within the month of august.
I pick "within the month of august" to be the idea to negate.
I leave "holiday" alone in a sense - keeping it as my sufficient.
So -
Holiday --> /within the month of August.
It is easier for me to start here then flip things around and mess up the flow of the original sentence. I don't know if this is right of helpful but just how my brain works!
This made sense to me! I even noticed while I was doing the contrapositive for one of them how it didn't make ANY sense and corrected myself before looking! LOVE that it's actually clicking!