So I finished undergrad in ’08, which by the way was a really shitty time to graduate, lol. Anyway. So I haven’t worked with my professors in a long long time and I’m not sure how valuable those letters would be. I also feel a little uncomfortable asking someone to vouch for me who I haven’t worked with for the better part of a decade. At best, all those letters can truthfully say is, “he was a great student ten years ago." I can get great professional letters all day long, but I’ve been doing the same work since I graduated and it’s nothing so impressive that I want multiples. So, I’m really not sure what to do.
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@jhaldy10325 why don't you see if your old professors are willing to have a conversation with you on the phone or—if it's possible—let you take them out for coffee. Tell each one up front that you're applying to law school, but ask if they'd be willing to reconnect. If the answer is no, that professor probably won't write you a good LOR. If the answer is yes, you'll have a chance to remind him or her of who you are, catch them up on your life, and feel him out, so you'll have a sense of whether he or she will write you a good one.
Hey Gramps (jk lol)
On a serious note, this is actually really tough. I attended the Ask Me Anything Webinar offered by 7sage/Spivey Consulting and the scenario of asking for LORs from professors from long ago was brought up. To my surprise, the hosts (who are former admission committee members from HYS) said academic letters are highly preferred over working letters and that's even for those who graduated long ago. They said it's going to be awkward to ask after such a long time but the value it holds on your application vs a working letter is immeasurable. Long story short, I think an academic letter is what you'll need anyway. I think providing your potential reccomendor with your resume will be helpful with the process. It gives them insight to who you are what you've done so they can write more in depth.
@ngir1293288 Your plan is totally kosher. A lot of admissions officers encourage people in your situation to take another class for the express purpose of getting a fresh rec.
Quick, go to grad school!
I was at the LSAC forum in San Fran on Thursday and one of the people in a LSAC class encouraged us to ask admins what that wanted to see if a letter of recommendation and how they were used during our table discussions.
Almost every single table I spoke to said to try and get an academic LOR as they want to see how you will perform in a school setting. They then encouraged at least one letter from an employer that highlights your leadership and work ethic and then an additional letter is a good option. School repeatedly said they are seeing a trend of 3 letters (if they allow that many). So if you can, get the Academic. I am 16 years post undergrad and they all recommended I try to reach out to one of them. Once they found out I had a Masters degree they said I needed at least one academic letter and I am 5 years out of my last Masters Program.
And you'd be surprised how easy it is to go back. As you'll see above many recommend sending a paper or a note, something that identifies you to the teacher. A paper you received a high grade on can be good. Call and ask to speak to them, they are used to writing recomendation letters. Its not saying you can't keep the ones you have, but add an academic if you can, especially if you are less than 10 years post undergrad or graduate program.
@jhaldy10325 I'd say you haven't been out of school long enough that a professional reference is absolutely necessary, so go with whoever you think will write the better letter. Consider how well each person knows you, how much each one likes you, and how well you think each one can write.
Thanks for all the responses guys! Special thanks to the man himself @davidbusis895.busis . I feel a lot better about this now!
So great for @davidbusis895.busis to share advice!!
p.s. David's webinar on how to get off wait-lists, while not intended for UnderGrad admissions, was the foundation that ultimately created the opportunity for my daughter to be accepted off of a highly selective wait-list for UG this Fall! Incredibly thankful for his expertise:)
So I haven’t worked with my professors in a long long time and I’m not sure how valuable those letters would be.
I was the same class as you and the profs who wrote my letters were both my profs Sophomore year. It's worth a try. I'm pretty memorable though :)
I graduated in '10. I reached out to the professors who knew me best or who I had later in my college years. I sent them old papers for their classes to remind them of my work. I went to a really small school though. Not sure what that would do at larger universities. If you worked as a TA under someone, that would be a good person to go to.
I dont think it will look like a stunt, they wont know the name of your professor, as it is generally not on your transcripts. Nor would they question in. The professor might say in their letter they just met you this summer, but I dont see how that would be an issue.
@jhaldy10325 It sounds like you've answered your own question. Stick with academic letters!
I encountered a similar issue in the Army many times. I had several direct supervisors who wrote at about a sixth grade level and while they might have been happy to help, there was no way I would let a law school see a letter that was riddled with grammar and syntax issues. Some schools sometimes say they don't care about stuff like that, but I tend to think it reflects incredibly poorly on the applicant to pick someone who writes poorly.
I skipped a professional LOR (and again, I'm your exact same age) primarily for this reason.
@ngir1293288 Ha!! Another good idea for a LOR - one of the authors who wrote for my book series. Maybe the guy who is the Vice Chairman of his department but in a different specialty than I am. We were even residents together many, many moons ago. Thanks for the very good thoughts, guys.
@jhaldy10325 Now, that is an interesting idea - getting a letter from someone on the film team. Guess the best person would be the director of the film. Technically the director works for the producers, but in reality the director is the big cheese so that takes care of the conflict of interest. Thanks for that thought, I will have to file that away in the keep folder.
Oh, nice! Good thing you managed to renew before everything got lost. I think it would be perfectly fine to go ahead with the letter you have - I think a letter that was written closer to your undergraduate time is likely to most accurately reflect the faculty's opinion of you as a student. I can't imagine a school having an issue with that - although they might be impressed with how organized and forward thinking you were securing that letter 6 years before applying to law school :-)
Curious if anyone knows how professional letters from lawyers/law firms are viewed by admissions vs. other non-legal jobs? Sounds like prevailing wisdom is at least look up your professors and try.
@thecubicleescapee957 that sounds like a really bad work situation. Glad you’re getting out of there! Do you volunteer with any organizations who could provide you a letter? Do you have any old profs you had been close with that you could potentially reach back out to? Any former bosses or bosses from other, past jobs? What about someone you work with who’s not really a boss but has some bullshit nominal title that technically makes them outrank you-someone who wouldn’t rat you out but who could be argued to be in a position to write a letter for you?
Just trying to think outside of the box.
@jhaldy10325 I seem to recall from that webinar that they said the perfect combination for those that have been working for a while would be 2 academic & 1 professional LOR. Anyone else that may recall better than I do, please feel free to correct me.
If I were you I would try to get the three best possible academic LORs that you can and then one stellar professional/work LOR. Then use two academic and one professional LOR for all your apps and save the last LOR in case you need it for a WL.
Thanks guys!
That makes me feel better @ngir1293288 . I did develop some really good relationships with a number of faculty members back in my day. It feels weird, but if that's what law schools want that's what I'll give them.
All the best @jhaldy10325!! :)
I think I remember you mentioning that you still have a good relationship with your undergraduate department, so if you think they would be willing and write a solid letter, I'd ask. Maybe provide a list of ideas (I'd like to remind you that I had this great idea that contributed to the success of the project, or I was the primary writer on the paper that was accepted with minor edits by Journal XYZ, you highlighted my paper as an example of excellent work in your class and so on).
I think faculty members you had a genuinely close and good relationship would be happy to write you a letter, even if you need to jog their memory a bit on the details - they'll remember that they liked you and they thought you were smart. I think Nicole said she had no trouble securing letters from her advisors 10 years after graduation.
I know my undergraduate mentor would be the first one I'd ask for a letter if he were still alive, and I've graduated 20 years ago.
As for the letter not being relevant to the "current you" - I think a lot of the qualities schools are looking for are fairly lasting - if you were smart 8 years ago, barring a progressive mental disorder you're likely to still be smart now. Same goes for intellectually curious, willing to participate, hard-working and so on.
And you can add a second letter from your employer that would enforce that you still have those qualities, and maybe some extras you didn't get a chance to showcase in college.
Good luck hunting!
Thanks @476 . I was really bummed I missed that webinar, and plan on watching as soon as it's posted. That sounds a lot like what I needed to know though. Time to start tracking folks down. Most of my mentor professors aren't even at my alma mater anymore.