I wanted to clarify my understanding, as I did choose A, but in looking at the video and all the discussion comments, I’m now confused about why B is wrong. I didn’t pick it because (A) was stronger overall. But I don’t understand now why/how (B) is confusing sufficent - necessary? From my understanding:
Mistaking a Necessary for Sufficient: "If you are a human, you breathe. Therefore, if you breathe, you are a human."
Why it's wrong: Breathing is a necessary condition, but it's not sufficient to prove you are human (dogs and cats breathe too). The argument assumes the presence of a necessary result guarantees the initial cause.
Mistaking a Sufficient -Necessary: "If you are a human, you breathe. Therefore, if you are not a human, you do not breathe."
Why it's wrong: The rule states that being human is sufficient to guarantee breathing, but it doesn't say it's necessary.
But (B) negates necessary and then negates sufficient through the contrapositive - so why is this wrong if the correct formula is applied?
the explanation for answer B. is very confusing to me. Just because you are eligible doesn't mean you get the award if you don't meet rule 2. I get how answer A can be stronger than answer B but the conclusion wasn't who is eligible but who actually takes home the award. Thus rule 2 needs to apply too.
@JosephAmoAppiah I had the same thought process, but (save life+exceeded+this year) are only the conditions (that are explicitly stated) that are SUFFICIENT to receive the award, meaning, there are other ways in which Penn could technically receive the award because he is also eligible. It is not logically sound to say he should not receive the award just because he does not meet/fails the sufficient conditions (sufficiency necessity confusion). All in all, Penn still could technically receive the award, but it is not appropriate to say he cannot, based off what we have in the stimulus.
I did not diagram this question at all. All I did was prephrase the question and then look for the answer choice that adhered to my prephrase. I did take two minutes over time. Here’s my prephrase that I wrote in my notebook, and then I simply hunted for the answer choice that adhered to its logical structure. I hope this helps you see how, once you implement this skill, this question type becomes a breeze.
IF an officer has an exemplary record and not otherwise (eligible), and did something this year that exceeded reasonable expectations and saved a life, THEN that officer should receive the award.
We are then given Officer Franklin, who should receive it, and Officer Penn, who shouldn’t. If Officer Penn should get the award, that means he satisfied all the requirements in the prephrase, and Officer Penn did not.
A) Follows the prephrase and adheres to its conditions and structure regarding Franklin and what prerequisites he must meet to actually receive the award, and it doesn’t include any contradictory information about Penn, like, for example, saying he has an exemplary record, because that would defeat the purpose of the principle—he didn’t get it for a reason.
B) Both have exemplary records, meaning both are eligible, and both saved a life this year. Why the hell didn’t they both get it then? Should I trust the principle or whatever this question is talking about?
C) Lmfao, neither of them has an exemplary record, meaning Franklin is a fraud and should be investigated by the city since he’s not even eligible for the award. This goes against the prephrase and the principle within it.
D) Now you’re telling me he saved a life and Penn did not—that’s cool, but what about his record, which makes him eligible in the first place for the award? Nope.
E) This one, on the surface, is attractive, but unless you didn’t catch the “BOTH” at the beginning of it, then you should also skip it, especially considering that A doesn’t even cast any doubt on the application or its adherence to the principle by saying that they BOTH are eligible. A is more attractive and more solid.
I think E is wrong because it has a gap, saying that the instances in which an officer did something beyond what is reasonably expected IS SEPARATE from the instances in which the act saved someones life. There is no indication in AC E that these two clauses happen together. If you look at the passage it goes like this...
If the act saved someones life, then the officer is eligible for the award if they did something this year that went beyond what was reasonably expected.
Because the passage says that "saving someones life" is the sufficient condition, this needs to be true(on top of having an exemplary record).
E DOES NOT 100% give us that truth.
This is how I understood it and I hope this helps others.
I don't understand why Penn not saving a person's life doesn't disqualify him from the award. If the logic is that those who need do something this year that saved a life and exceed expectations should be eligible then wouldn't the contrapositive of that be that someone who did not do those things (AC E) should not be eligible?
ngl i only got this when i decided to eliminate all answers that said "Pen had exemplary record" and took having exe... records as the only necessary condition to get an award.
So this basically just boils down to just because these three conditions are sufficient to get the award, it is not NEEDED there can be other avenues to get the award. So not qualifying one does not automatically disqualify Penn from receiving the award because potentially he can receive the award from a different avenue. making AC E. and B. wrong. The easiest way to make sure Penn does not get the award basically would just be to make sure he is not even eligible which is why AC A is correct.
I got it down to A vs B but could not for the life of me choose which one was best, so I picked B, then A in BR.
I think in this case, if you start thinking too hard you start making more and more assumptions and it's easier to mix up suff/nec in your head and maybe even interpret the conclusion incorrectly.
IRL, I would argue B would absolutely be correct. Penn should not get the award. He did not exceed. If he made fuss about not getting the award, everyone would ask him to take a deep breath and have a nap.
A is the better and clearer answer, but it's super hard to fully eliminate B because the application of the principle IRL means Penn is not getting that award, try again next year.
BUT my reasoning leads to a different conclusion. The conclusion B is getting at is "Officer Penn DID not receive an award." If he did not receive an award, then he must not have met a sufficient condition for R2.
Watch out for, "but not otherwise". That group of words means, and.
So, you need to have an exemplary record AND do something this year that exceeded what could be reasonably expected of a police officer...saved someone's life.
Answer choice A links the conclusion to the principle.
Answer Choice A:
In saving a child from drowning this year, Franklin and Penn both risked their lives beyond what could be reasonably expected of a police officer. Franklin has an exemplary record but Penn does not.
Why is this right...?
Franklin and Penn both risked their lives saving someone. Great! This satisfies the sufficient condition that both officers saved someone.
BUT, Penn doesn't have an exemplary record.
Therefore, Franklin is eligible for the reward, but Penn is not because he doesn't satisfy the other sufficient condition, having an exemplary record.
Principle:
Exemplary record AND saving someone's life --> eligible for Mayor's reward.
Here is the conclusion of the principle:
Officer Franklin should receive a Mayor's Commendation, but Officer Penn should not.
I chose B becasue it actually made sense in the context of who SHOULD recive the award. The argument for why B is wrong relys on the fact that "Penn is still eligable. He can still recive the award."
Correct, but the conclusion is who SHOULD recive the award. If they're both eligable that's fine, but if Franklin went above and beyond, then that gives reason why he should be awarded.
I understand why A is right, but I cannot grasp your reasoning for why B is wrong.
@CMas With B, we still don't have any reason to think Penn should not receive the award.
We have a principle that you should receive the award if the act save someone's life and you went above and beyond and you're eligible.
But we don't have any way of reaching the conclusion that someone should NOT receive the award aside from showing that they're ineligible. But B doesn't show that Penn is ineligible. So how can we conclude that he shouldn't get the award?
@Kevin_Lin since I'm also a bit stuck on B even though A is clearly the correct choice -
What if we added on to the principle something like "...if the act saved someone's life; but not otherwise." Would that take care of B? Does that give us the flip that if those 3 suff conditions aren't met, then Penn should not be awarded?
Ugh, I do not understand why my brain keeps confusing sufficient and necessary conditions. I do it every time, my biggest weakness and it is such a bad one to have. Like, as he is explaining it I am like GAH yep, of course. I see it. But I seemingly cannot get sufficient and necessary's locked in place. Ugh. Better luck next time I suppose.
A. Has to have exemplary record: eligible (has to; without it - answer doesn't matter)
B. Exceeded expectations
C. Saved life
_____
Conclusion: Receive award
Answer choice A: Franklin and Penn risked their lives to save a child from drowning - conditions (Conditions B and C - CHECK). Franklin has exemplary record, Penn does not. (Penn is not even eligible, and should not get it, but Franklin checks all the conditions. [full disclosure]
!!! [TRICKY] Answer choice B: F and P have exemplary records and saved a child from drowning (A and C - Check). Franklin went above and beyond, Penn did not. Even though Penn did not go what's reasonably expected (failing condition B), he is still eligible for the award and could receive it despite not going above and beyond (could be for a different reason). Him not going above and beyond does not automatically disqualify him, based on the rules described.
Answer choice C: "Neither Franklin nor Penn has an exemplary record" --> Well, you can eliminate this option right there, since neither are even eligible for the award.
Answer choice D: We're not told whether they are even eligible to get the award. We can't assume they just have exemplary records at face value --> ELIMINATED.
Answer choice E: Similar as (B): they're both eligible, but the fact that Franklin has saved lives and went above and beyond does not disqualify Penn from getting it (Penn still has an examplary record and is thus eligible; he could get the award for another reason(s) that have nothing to do with going above and beyond and/or saving someone's life).
Subscribe to unlock everything that 7Sage has to offer.
Hold on there, stranger! You need a free account for that.
We love that you want to get going. Just create a free account below—it only takes a minute—and then you can continue!
Hold on there, stranger! You need a free account for that.
We love that you came here to read all the amazing posts from our 300,000+ members. They all have accounts too! Just create a free account below—it only takes a minute—and then you’re free to discuss anything!
Hold on there, stranger! You need a free account for that.
We love that you want to give us feedback! Just create a free account below—it only takes a minute—and then you’re free to vote on this!
Hold on there, you need to slow down.
We love that you want post in our discussion forum! Just come back in a bit to post again!
Sorry, you need a subscription for that.
Happens all the time: now that you've had a taste of the lessons, you just can't stop -- and you don't have to! Click the button.
283 comments
I wanted to clarify my understanding, as I did choose A, but in looking at the video and all the discussion comments, I’m now confused about why B is wrong. I didn’t pick it because (A) was stronger overall. But I don’t understand now why/how (B) is confusing sufficent - necessary? From my understanding:
Mistaking a Necessary for Sufficient: "If you are a human, you breathe. Therefore, if you breathe, you are a human."
Why it's wrong: Breathing is a necessary condition, but it's not sufficient to prove you are human (dogs and cats breathe too). The argument assumes the presence of a necessary result guarantees the initial cause.
Mistaking a Sufficient -Necessary: "If you are a human, you breathe. Therefore, if you are not a human, you do not breathe."
Why it's wrong: The rule states that being human is sufficient to guarantee breathing, but it doesn't say it's necessary.
But (B) negates necessary and then negates sufficient through the contrapositive - so why is this wrong if the correct formula is applied?
This question was pretty hard at first, but I got it quickly on BR.
I feel dumb getting this question wrong after seeing the explanation haha. but now I know what "but not otherwise" means.
this question has been the most straightforward for me thus far
the explanation for answer B. is very confusing to me. Just because you are eligible doesn't mean you get the award if you don't meet rule 2. I get how answer A can be stronger than answer B but the conclusion wasn't who is eligible but who actually takes home the award. Thus rule 2 needs to apply too.
@JosephAmoAppiah I had the same thought process, but (save life+exceeded+this year) are only the conditions (that are explicitly stated) that are SUFFICIENT to receive the award, meaning, there are other ways in which Penn could technically receive the award because he is also eligible. It is not logically sound to say he should not receive the award just because he does not meet/fails the sufficient conditions (sufficiency necessity confusion). All in all, Penn still could technically receive the award, but it is not appropriate to say he cannot, based off what we have in the stimulus.
I did not diagram this question at all. All I did was prephrase the question and then look for the answer choice that adhered to my prephrase. I did take two minutes over time. Here’s my prephrase that I wrote in my notebook, and then I simply hunted for the answer choice that adhered to its logical structure. I hope this helps you see how, once you implement this skill, this question type becomes a breeze.
We are then given Officer Franklin, who should receive it, and Officer Penn, who shouldn’t. If Officer Penn should get the award, that means he satisfied all the requirements in the prephrase, and Officer Penn did not.
A) Follows the prephrase and adheres to its conditions and structure regarding Franklin and what prerequisites he must meet to actually receive the award, and it doesn’t include any contradictory information about Penn, like, for example, saying he has an exemplary record, because that would defeat the purpose of the principle—he didn’t get it for a reason.
B) Both have exemplary records, meaning both are eligible, and both saved a life this year. Why the hell didn’t they both get it then? Should I trust the principle or whatever this question is talking about?
C) Lmfao, neither of them has an exemplary record, meaning Franklin is a fraud and should be investigated by the city since he’s not even eligible for the award. This goes against the prephrase and the principle within it.
D) Now you’re telling me he saved a life and Penn did not—that’s cool, but what about his record, which makes him eligible in the first place for the award? Nope.
E) This one, on the surface, is attractive, but unless you didn’t catch the “BOTH” at the beginning of it, then you should also skip it, especially considering that A doesn’t even cast any doubt on the application or its adherence to the principle by saying that they BOTH are eligible. A is more attractive and more solid.
also : BUT NOT OTHERWISE is always biconditional indicator?
So we have to show everything that is written in the premises for the answer to follow.
I miss the easy ones, but when it comes to a 5 level difficulty I get it right in 58 seconds! -1:11 on the timing? What is happening lol
I think E is wrong because it has a gap, saying that the instances in which an officer did something beyond what is reasonably expected IS SEPARATE from the instances in which the act saved someones life. There is no indication in AC E that these two clauses happen together. If you look at the passage it goes like this...
If the act saved someones life, then the officer is eligible for the award if they did something this year that went beyond what was reasonably expected.
Because the passage says that "saving someones life" is the sufficient condition, this needs to be true(on top of having an exemplary record).
E DOES NOT 100% give us that truth.
This is how I understood it and I hope this helps others.
I don't understand why Penn not saving a person's life doesn't disqualify him from the award. If the logic is that those who need do something this year that saved a life and exceed expectations should be eligible then wouldn't the contrapositive of that be that someone who did not do those things (AC E) should not be eligible?
BANGGGG Timing on the dot as well
Hoping I get many level 5 questions on my LSAT because I've never gotten a level 5 wrong (those level 2s and 3s, on the other hand.....)
@SofiyaBerman literally was about to comment this lol why do level 5s come so natural but the 2s and 3s are tripping me whyyyyy
+1:04 on timing but I'm so happy that I got this level 5 question right!
ngl i only got this when i decided to eliminate all answers that said "Pen had exemplary record" and took having exe... records as the only necessary condition to get an award.
I did the process of elimination and was stuck in between B and A. Chose B initially and then A in the BR:/ I need to work on these
The rule says the three things are sufficient, not required.
The rule is:
That means:
If all three happen → the award must happen ✔️
But if one is missing → we cannot say the award won’t happen ❌
Because the rule never said:
So this basically just boils down to just because these three conditions are sufficient to get the award, it is not NEEDED there can be other avenues to get the award. So not qualifying one does not automatically disqualify Penn from receiving the award because potentially he can receive the award from a different avenue. making AC E. and B. wrong. The easiest way to make sure Penn does not get the award basically would just be to make sure he is not even eligible which is why AC A is correct.
I got it down to A vs B but could not for the life of me choose which one was best, so I picked B, then A in BR.
I think in this case, if you start thinking too hard you start making more and more assumptions and it's easier to mix up suff/nec in your head and maybe even interpret the conclusion incorrectly.
IRL, I would argue B would absolutely be correct. Penn should not get the award. He did not exceed. If he made fuss about not getting the award, everyone would ask him to take a deep breath and have a nap.
A is the better and clearer answer, but it's super hard to fully eliminate B because the application of the principle IRL means Penn is not getting that award, try again next year.
BUT my reasoning leads to a different conclusion. The conclusion B is getting at is "Officer Penn DID not receive an award." If he did not receive an award, then he must not have met a sufficient condition for R2.
That's the trick...
I am only getting these right in BR :(
@PSERRACOSTA Same. A win is a win though
forever together biconditional <3
Watch out for, "but not otherwise". That group of words means, and.
So, you need to have an exemplary record AND do something this year that exceeded what could be reasonably expected of a police officer...saved someone's life.
Answer choice A links the conclusion to the principle.
Answer Choice A:
In saving a child from drowning this year, Franklin and Penn both risked their lives beyond what could be reasonably expected of a police officer. Franklin has an exemplary record but Penn does not.
Why is this right...?
Franklin and Penn both risked their lives saving someone. Great! This satisfies the sufficient condition that both officers saved someone.
BUT, Penn doesn't have an exemplary record.
Therefore, Franklin is eligible for the reward, but Penn is not because he doesn't satisfy the other sufficient condition, having an exemplary record.
Principle:
Exemplary record AND saving someone's life --> eligible for Mayor's reward.
Here is the conclusion of the principle:
Officer Franklin should receive a Mayor's Commendation, but Officer Penn should not.
I chose B becasue it actually made sense in the context of who SHOULD recive the award. The argument for why B is wrong relys on the fact that "Penn is still eligable. He can still recive the award."
Correct, but the conclusion is who SHOULD recive the award. If they're both eligable that's fine, but if Franklin went above and beyond, then that gives reason why he should be awarded.
I understand why A is right, but I cannot grasp your reasoning for why B is wrong.
@CMas With B, we still don't have any reason to think Penn should not receive the award.
We have a principle that you should receive the award if the act save someone's life and you went above and beyond and you're eligible.
But we don't have any way of reaching the conclusion that someone should NOT receive the award aside from showing that they're ineligible. But B doesn't show that Penn is ineligible. So how can we conclude that he shouldn't get the award?
@Kevin_Lin since I'm also a bit stuck on B even though A is clearly the correct choice -
What if we added on to the principle something like "...if the act saved someone's life; but not otherwise." Would that take care of B? Does that give us the flip that if those 3 suff conditions aren't met, then Penn should not be awarded?
Ugh, I do not understand why my brain keeps confusing sufficient and necessary conditions. I do it every time, my biggest weakness and it is such a bad one to have. Like, as he is explaining it I am like GAH yep, of course. I see it. But I seemingly cannot get sufficient and necessary's locked in place. Ugh. Better luck next time I suppose.
From the stimulus:
A. Has to have exemplary record: eligible (has to; without it - answer doesn't matter)
B. Exceeded expectations
C. Saved life
_____
Conclusion: Receive award
Answer choice A: Franklin and Penn risked their lives to save a child from drowning - conditions (Conditions B and C - CHECK). Franklin has exemplary record, Penn does not. (Penn is not even eligible, and should not get it, but Franklin checks all the conditions. [full disclosure]
!!! [TRICKY] Answer choice B: F and P have exemplary records and saved a child from drowning (A and C - Check). Franklin went above and beyond, Penn did not. Even though Penn did not go what's reasonably expected (failing condition B), he is still eligible for the award and could receive it despite not going above and beyond (could be for a different reason). Him not going above and beyond does not automatically disqualify him, based on the rules described.
Answer choice C: "Neither Franklin nor Penn has an exemplary record" --> Well, you can eliminate this option right there, since neither are even eligible for the award.
Answer choice D: We're not told whether they are even eligible to get the award. We can't assume they just have exemplary records at face value --> ELIMINATED.
Answer choice E: Similar as (B): they're both eligible, but the fact that Franklin has saved lives and went above and beyond does not disqualify Penn from getting it (Penn still has an examplary record and is thus eligible; he could get the award for another reason(s) that have nothing to do with going above and beyond and/or saving someone's life).