If you haven't done a wrong answer journal, I encourage you to make one ASAP! Helped me avoid falling for the oldest trick in the book after doing it multiple times on previous questions.
@JalenWilson I’ve seen the suggestion to keep a 'wrong answer journal' quite often, but I’m looking for the most effective way to structure one. Should I be documenting every incorrect choice I make, or should I focus specifically on the reasoning behind why those answers were wrong and how to avoid that logic in the future?
@RugensJeanBaptiste The reasoning and what you learned from getting the answer wrong has benefited me the most. It's almost like teaching yourself which makes it helpful
Not sure if I'm actually getting better with assumption questions, or the questions are made easier toward the end that I FEEL like I'm getting better.
JY’s explanation for PT133.S3.Q11 is missing something important.
He says P1 is phenomenon and P2 is explanation of the phenomenon, and, importantly, that it is best to ignore P2 in order to see how the argument functions. This is not the case. Both provide direct support for the argument. Further, recognizing the function of P2 is crucial to understanding why an answer as strong as (B) is still a necessary assumption.
Lets start with evaluating a weaker version of (B). Lets say the relevant subset of people don’t necessarily need to EXCLUSIVELY rely on valid information, but perhaps need to rely on valid information simply more than quackery. If that works with the argument, then (B) is not necessary. Suppose we accept JY’s analysis of the argument, that we can ignore P2. People can’t tell the difference between valid info and quackery. So, it is LIKELY (as in > 50%) they will do more harm than good when relying on it. This is a weak argument, but that’s fine. Maybe the hidden assumption is that there is just more quackery out there than valid info? Ok, if that’s the case, does our weaker version of (B) hold up? YES! It does. If, despite the overall balance of articles on the internet, you happened to rely on 9 valid articles and 1 quack article, you would probably be OK, but if we adjust the balance, relying on more quack articles than valid articles would probably be an issue. Now lets integrate P2 into the argument and see how the necessity for EXCLUSIVELY valid info emerges. P2 says that, it’s not just that people can’t tell the difference between valid info and quackery, they can’t parse the valid info! It’s too dense, and if they come across it, they can’t apply it. Quackery, on the other hand, is easy to parse (and presumably easier to apply). THAT is why it’s necessary to rely EXCLUSIVELY on scientifically valid information, and why (B) is the right answer. Overall, the argument is (P1) people can't filter out quack content, (P2) people can't parse valid content, (C) relying on this content causes more harm than good, with (NA) unless they exclusively rely on valid content
@dh2303 see this is where my brain just can't process the info. i got this question right because it felt right, but I can't fully wrap my head around why.
So there are premise that are there to just support the rule premise and they don't do much else. Like the second premise here and some that we have seen in the past? Is this an actual thing or am I just connecting dots that don't exist??
@HilarySackor Try adding it is not true in front of the correct answer choice.
IT IS NOT TRUE THAT People who attempt to diagnose their medical conditions are likely to do themselves more harm than good unless they rely exclusively on scientifically valid information.
IT IS NOT TRUE THAT /scientifically valid info-> likely to do more harm than good
Then what is the point of having scientifically valid info? Why is quackery bad? The entire stim falls apart and all the premises are rendered moot.
@meepmeep same here. after I read the stimulus I try and find the gap in my head before I look at the answers. A was the assumption I came up with IN MY HEAD before I even looked at it. Ugh.
the "rely exclusively on scientifically valid information." is why i didn't choose b .. i literally was like thats so strong, that doesn't have to be true .. there are other valid forms of info that would do them well. Can someone explain ?
@ANP I got the last 2 questions, including this one right as well. Underline the necessary predicates in the stimulus to show you what you need to focus on
B: People who attempt to diagnose their medical conditions are : Necessary (likely to do themselves more harm than good unless they rely exclusively on scientifically valid information.)
In the stimulus it says in the conclusion the same thing. For me the rest of the options canceled themselves at staying off the topic for each other the necessary conditions within the stimulus. There are several NAs in the stimulus—
…can’t discriminate between valid I. And quackery
…it’s usually written more clearly than scientific papers
…. Are likely to do themselves more harm than good.
if these are all the necessary conditions… what can you estimate from each other answers given?
Clearly not A or E
It can’t be C because is talks about an outside subset ( those who know medic info)
D tripped me up but I focused on the essence of what was necessary for the whole argument. D was referencing the information- which is valid— but not what we are looking for which is the whole point “ more harm than good”
Hence is why I chose B…hopefully seeing my thoughts process helped
why the hell would they include a level 5 question in such early stages? it is better to start with something that is easy comprehensable for this stage!!!!.
somebody, please, for the love of god explain the difference between b and e for me. i understand E is the sufficient-necessary confusion thingy BUT I DO NOT GET HOW AT ALL PLZ HELP ME
@Nickgigs The conclusion of the argument is saying "people who rely on the web when attempting to diagnose their medical conditions are likely to do themselves more harm than good."
so lets say rely on the web --(likely)-> more harm than good
E is saying, "People attempting to diagnose their medical conditions will do themselves more harm than good only if they rely on quackery instead of scientifically valid information."
Only if is what makes it a necessary indicator, so it would be:
more harm than good --> rely on quackery instead of scientifically valid information. (or in other words rely on web)
Does this help?
Essentially the actual conclusion is A is likely for B
@Nickgigs dont feel defeated. NA questions are hard and this is something completely new it takes time to see it. What i did was go through each question and i asked myself if this had to be true for it to work. I was stuck between e and b and i negated it. when i negated e i essentially understood that if they don't rely on quackery it does more harm than good and that doesn't make any sense at all. When I negated B the argument fell apart if people could rely on non-scientific info and still not harm themselves, the author’s prediction wouldn’t make sense. That showed B was the necessary assumption
So I see a clear gap between people who browse the web for medical information and those who have no medical background. is bridging then another necessary assumption? And if so, does that mean there are two necessary assumption needed for the argument to work?
obviously that bridge wasn't in the answer choices, but will there ever be multiple necessary assumptions? if so how do we choose one over the other?
I still don't understand the difference between NA and SA so far. It feels like all of the questions so far have been ones where the right answer could be both. I would have went with B, but I assumed that it seemed like "too good" of an answer choice for the question, making it a SA. I thought one of the main things we we're told was that incorrect AC's for NA questions will bait us into making SA's (especially since this comes right after the SA curriculum part), so I was looking for something that it seemed that the stimulus overlooked as a key part of the conclusion and went with AC A. I understand how A could be wrong since people browsing in general is the superset, but I'm still confused on the difference between SA and NA questions so far, hopefully it will make more sense down the line.
@jackghenriquez1 I can totally relate! I also find it tricky to differentiate NA and SA questions, especially since a correct answer for an NA question can sometimes be sufficient. The negation test offers a helpful illustration for this example.
Let's try to negate the correct answer (B).
B) says: People who attempt to diagnose their medical conditions are likely to do themselves more harm than good unless they rely exclusively on scientifically valid information
Let's say B was NOT true: That would mean that someone who attempts to diagnose their medical condition and doesn't rely exclusively on scientifically valid information is NOT likely to do themselves more harm than good. That's extremely damaging for the argument. The conclusion of the argument was that people who rely on the web to diagnose themselves are likely to do themselves more harm than good because they can't tell the difference between scientifically valid information and quackery. By negating B), we're totally undermining the conclusion. The fact that people can't tell science from nonsense because no longer puts them at risk of harm.
This negation test shows how we really need B) to be true for the argument to work, and thus indicates that B) is a necessary assumption.
In contrast, let's say A) wasn't true.
People who browse the web for medical information aren't typically trying to diagnose their medical conditions. See how that doesn't destroy the argument? It's still possible that people sometimes browse the web for medical info to try to diagnose themselves. So we don't need A) to be true for the conclusion to be possible.
I think (although I'm not 100% sure) another correct answer could have been something like this:
At least some of the quackery that people encounter online when attempting to diagnose their medical conditions offers harmful advice.
If we negate the above, then we would have: None of the quackery people encounter online offers harmful advice. Well now it's pretty hard to see how relying on the web for a diagnosis could lead to more harm than good.
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143 comments
audible angry screeches
I had Necessary Assumption PTSD.
nvm
yup. lol.
If you haven't done a wrong answer journal, I encourage you to make one ASAP! Helped me avoid falling for the oldest trick in the book after doing it multiple times on previous questions.
@JalenWilson I’ve seen the suggestion to keep a 'wrong answer journal' quite often, but I’m looking for the most effective way to structure one. Should I be documenting every incorrect choice I make, or should I focus specifically on the reasoning behind why those answers were wrong and how to avoid that logic in the future?
@RugensJeanBaptiste The reasoning and what you learned from getting the answer wrong has benefited me the most. It's almost like teaching yourself which makes it helpful
Ah yes, if it ain't the good ole' OLDEST MISTAKE IN THE BOOK.
Not sure if I'm actually getting better with assumption questions, or the questions are made easier toward the end that I FEEL like I'm getting better.
OHH NOOO, this one got me :( I fell for E and then A
JY’s explanation for PT133.S3.Q11 is missing something important.
He says P1 is phenomenon and P2 is explanation of the phenomenon, and, importantly, that it is best to ignore P2 in order to see how the argument functions. This is not the case. Both provide direct support for the argument. Further, recognizing the function of P2 is crucial to understanding why an answer as strong as (B) is still a necessary assumption.
Lets start with evaluating a weaker version of (B). Lets say the relevant subset of people don’t necessarily need to EXCLUSIVELY rely on valid information, but perhaps need to rely on valid information simply more than quackery. If that works with the argument, then (B) is not necessary. Suppose we accept JY’s analysis of the argument, that we can ignore P2. People can’t tell the difference between valid info and quackery. So, it is LIKELY (as in > 50%) they will do more harm than good when relying on it. This is a weak argument, but that’s fine. Maybe the hidden assumption is that there is just more quackery out there than valid info? Ok, if that’s the case, does our weaker version of (B) hold up? YES! It does. If, despite the overall balance of articles on the internet, you happened to rely on 9 valid articles and 1 quack article, you would probably be OK, but if we adjust the balance, relying on more quack articles than valid articles would probably be an issue. Now lets integrate P2 into the argument and see how the necessity for EXCLUSIVELY valid info emerges. P2 says that, it’s not just that people can’t tell the difference between valid info and quackery, they can’t parse the valid info! It’s too dense, and if they come across it, they can’t apply it. Quackery, on the other hand, is easy to parse (and presumably easier to apply). THAT is why it’s necessary to rely EXCLUSIVELY on scientifically valid information, and why (B) is the right answer. Overall, the argument is (P1) people can't filter out quack content, (P2) people can't parse valid content, (C) relying on this content causes more harm than good, with (NA) unless they exclusively rely on valid content
@dh2303 see this is where my brain just can't process the info. i got this question right because it felt right, but I can't fully wrap my head around why.
man i was so sure about A and maybe B and then chose E in BR anyway my goodness that one hurts
@EmeryBeals I thought the exact same thing lol
So I got the 2 star question wrong but I get this one right and with time to spare
So there are premise that are there to just support the rule premise and they don't do much else. Like the second premise here and some that we have seen in the past? Is this an actual thing or am I just connecting dots that don't exist??
The negation technique does not work for me because even if I negate something, I can still explain why the stimulus cannot operate without it.
The issue with using the Negation technique is being able to prove why the stim CAN operate with wrong answer choices, and can't with right answers
Can someone simplify why this is necessary. I feel as though the explanation isn't simplifying this enough.
@HilarySackor Try adding it is not true in front of the correct answer choice.
IT IS NOT TRUE THAT People who attempt to diagnose their medical conditions are likely to do themselves more harm than good unless they rely exclusively on scientifically valid information.
IT IS NOT TRUE THAT /scientifically valid info-> likely to do more harm than good
Then what is the point of having scientifically valid info? Why is quackery bad? The entire stim falls apart and all the premises are rendered moot.
I really fell for A and feel like I would choose that answer choice again still even after explanation :/
@meepmeep same here. after I read the stimulus I try and find the gap in my head before I look at the answers. A was the assumption I came up with IN MY HEAD before I even looked at it. Ugh.
man i gotta read better
God is good. 3 correct in a row
the "rely exclusively on scientifically valid information." is why i didn't choose b .. i literally was like thats so strong, that doesn't have to be true .. there are other valid forms of info that would do them well. Can someone explain ?
@ANP I got the last 2 questions, including this one right as well. Underline the necessary predicates in the stimulus to show you what you need to focus on
B: People who attempt to diagnose their medical conditions are : Necessary (likely to do themselves more harm than good unless they rely exclusively on scientifically valid information.)
In the stimulus it says in the conclusion the same thing. For me the rest of the options canceled themselves at staying off the topic for each other the necessary conditions within the stimulus. There are several NAs in the stimulus—
…can’t discriminate between valid I. And quackery
…it’s usually written more clearly than scientific papers
…. Are likely to do themselves more harm than good.
if these are all the necessary conditions… what can you estimate from each other answers given?
Clearly not A or E
It can’t be C because is talks about an outside subset ( those who know medic info)
D tripped me up but I focused on the essence of what was necessary for the whole argument. D was referencing the information- which is valid— but not what we are looking for which is the whole point “ more harm than good”
Hence is why I chose B…hopefully seeing my thoughts process helped
how do they justify jumping from a level 2 to a level 5 question so early on /: they really know how to break my fleeting confidence
why the hell would they include a level 5 question in such early stages? it is better to start with something that is easy comprehensable for this stage!!!!.
I didn't take my Concerta today so this question is really breaking my brain
somebody, please, for the love of god explain the difference between b and e for me. i understand E is the sufficient-necessary confusion thingy BUT I DO NOT GET HOW AT ALL PLZ HELP ME
@Nickgigs like what would the negated version of e be. i am so lost i feel so defeated ugh ew
@Nickgigs The conclusion of the argument is saying "people who rely on the web when attempting to diagnose their medical conditions are likely to do themselves more harm than good."
so lets say rely on the web --(likely)-> more harm than good
E is saying, "People attempting to diagnose their medical conditions will do themselves more harm than good only if they rely on quackery instead of scientifically valid information."
Only if is what makes it a necessary indicator, so it would be:
more harm than good --> rely on quackery instead of scientifically valid information. (or in other words rely on web)
Does this help?
Essentially the actual conclusion is A is likely for B
E) is saying, B --> A
@ArianNoori no :(
@Nickgigs dont feel defeated. NA questions are hard and this is something completely new it takes time to see it. What i did was go through each question and i asked myself if this had to be true for it to work. I was stuck between e and b and i negated it. when i negated e i essentially understood that if they don't rely on quackery it does more harm than good and that doesn't make any sense at all. When I negated B the argument fell apart if people could rely on non-scientific info and still not harm themselves, the author’s prediction wouldn’t make sense. That showed B was the necessary assumption
20 MINUTES LATER AND I GOT IT RIGHT FIRST TRY (let me have this please i am awful at this section)
So I see a clear gap between people who browse the web for medical information and those who have no medical background. is bridging then another necessary assumption? And if so, does that mean there are two necessary assumption needed for the argument to work?
obviously that bridge wasn't in the answer choices, but will there ever be multiple necessary assumptions? if so how do we choose one over the other?
#help
I still don't understand the difference between NA and SA so far. It feels like all of the questions so far have been ones where the right answer could be both. I would have went with B, but I assumed that it seemed like "too good" of an answer choice for the question, making it a SA. I thought one of the main things we we're told was that incorrect AC's for NA questions will bait us into making SA's (especially since this comes right after the SA curriculum part), so I was looking for something that it seemed that the stimulus overlooked as a key part of the conclusion and went with AC A. I understand how A could be wrong since people browsing in general is the superset, but I'm still confused on the difference between SA and NA questions so far, hopefully it will make more sense down the line.
@jackghenriquez1 I can totally relate! I also find it tricky to differentiate NA and SA questions, especially since a correct answer for an NA question can sometimes be sufficient. The negation test offers a helpful illustration for this example.
Let's try to negate the correct answer (B).
B) says: People who attempt to diagnose their medical conditions are likely to do themselves more harm than good unless they rely exclusively on scientifically valid information
Let's say B was NOT true: That would mean that someone who attempts to diagnose their medical condition and doesn't rely exclusively on scientifically valid information is NOT likely to do themselves more harm than good. That's extremely damaging for the argument. The conclusion of the argument was that people who rely on the web to diagnose themselves are likely to do themselves more harm than good because they can't tell the difference between scientifically valid information and quackery. By negating B), we're totally undermining the conclusion. The fact that people can't tell science from nonsense because no longer puts them at risk of harm.
This negation test shows how we really need B) to be true for the argument to work, and thus indicates that B) is a necessary assumption.
In contrast, let's say A) wasn't true.
People who browse the web for medical information aren't typically trying to diagnose their medical conditions. See how that doesn't destroy the argument? It's still possible that people sometimes browse the web for medical info to try to diagnose themselves. So we don't need A) to be true for the conclusion to be possible.
I think (although I'm not 100% sure) another correct answer could have been something like this:
At least some of the quackery that people encounter online when attempting to diagnose their medical conditions offers harmful advice.
If we negate the above, then we would have: None of the quackery people encounter online offers harmful advice. Well now it's pretty hard to see how relying on the web for a diagnosis could lead to more harm than good.
@AudreyGilmour *ignore the "because" in the 13th line
@AudreyGilmour This helped, I appreciate you explaining that.