For fellow people worried when they see questions being way over time-- These questions are being used to test the skill being taught, but in the context of a real LSAT question. Don't worry about timing yet! It's better to be able to properly do a skill (here it's comparatives) instead of rushing because you're worried about the time.
The stimulus is entirely comparative: it sets up a gap between what people expect versus what actually happens.
Answer Choice (E) uses the exact same comparative structure ("more often than is actually the case").
My question is:
How much weight should we give to this structural coincidence? Is a comparative stimulus a guarantee that the correct answer must also be in a comparative format? Or is it possible for the correct answer to be written as a functional statement without the than marker?
I’m trying to determine if hunting for this format match is a reliable shortcut or a potential trap :)
@marianagomes It's very difficult to say this kind of match is required in order for an answer to be correct. The LSAT is great at writing sneaky answers. For example, I think this would be a well supported claim "People's expectations don't always match reality."
Although I chose the correct answer, I do not understand the explanation for why "B" is wrong. By my reasoning, it was wrong for a completely different reason.
@180-Energy something can be wrong for multiple reasons, like 10 is not a prime number bc it is 5*2 and bc it can be broken up into multiple primes, blah blah blah
I chose E because it seemed the most clear answer but i was tempted by C because even though it says E the other way around, i was thinking its saying the same thing; the same way i am older than you and you are younger than me are the same, why cant C also be correct because it is saying the same thing as E the other way around. Why would I assume what I think of other people is different from what others think of me?
@YakovMahgerefteh I don't think C is an example of something being equivalent. The Equivalent Statement to E is "One's appearance and behavior are noticed by others far less than people tend to believe". There is no information on what the observers believe their level of observation is, so we do not know if they are less observant, more observant, or about the same level of observant.
Question for a 7Sage instructor (but happy to have input from others as well!):
7Sage keeps referencing "cultivating habits" like fleshing out referentials, setting aside modifiers to see the passage's core structure, identifying what is being compared, how it is being compares, and which thing wins in comparisons, but I'm unsure of which habits/exercises, if any, you actually want us to be doing on paper as we work through questions in the hopes of getting the right answer.
In other words, can you please explicitly share with us what we should be writing down when we answer these questions? I want to know because, of course, in a perfect non-time-constrained world, we would embrace all of these habits by fleshing out every passage's complexity in every possible way. And maybe, in the beginning, you would like us to? But it is helpful for me to hear whether any of these exercises/habits are actually worthwhile (time-wise) to be jotting down on test day.
Everyone thinks/works differently so I understand that is difficult to broadly advise us, but please let me know of your thoughts. Thank you so much!!
@DeliaCanDoIt! I think the skill builder exercises illustrate the intended habit. When you encounter a comparative, make sure you identify (1) the two things being compared, (2) the quality being compared, and (3) which thing “wins” the comparison.
For test day, most of the advice I’ve seen is that time spent writing is often not a good investment unless you’re returning to a flagged question with time to spare. Part of the purpose of us doing all of this practice is to make it so this type of analysis and reasoning comes naturally and we don’t need the crutch of a diagram or notes to get through this type of question quickly and accurately on test day.
When it comes to fleshing out referentials and other grammar issues, all of this is supposed to be done in one's mind. (And if you think it'll take too long, it won't!...with enough practice.) So don't take the fact that the videos write stuff out to imply that you should also be writing stuff out. The videos write stuff out for the purpose of instruction.
I need to do a better job in analyzing the answer prompts. I was able to extract the proper meaning out of the comparative claims in the question but failed to see the intricacies of the language used in B and C to be able to better differentiate it from the correct answer in E
I am not sure if I am doing this correct, but finding the conclusion, and reading the statements in the paragraphs, helped me get the right answer (because the right answer also supported the conclusion) Idk if that makes any sense or I'm just simply doing crazy at this point lol.
@Jordanabel Right, (B) isn't saying one thing is more or less likely to be noticed than another thing or that the magnitude of something is more or less than another thing.
@DeborahAdel I can understand the frustration. So many people are in the same place as you so don't over-stress. For now, focus on the main concepts & on your off time, it is recommended to habitually read diverse and challenging concepts that you are not familiar with so that you can begin to build a strength in that department. (IE: replace scrolling with going through passages).
I’m very happy I got this question right but I was well over the suggested timing it should have taken to answer this question. I’m not discouraged about the time I know I have to work on this skill before I can speed up.
@NaomiSmith Kinda unrelated but -- I've been studying for a bit over a month and came back to this foundations course to better my accuracy and to better analyze questions. All this to say, I'm still far away from working on my timing. Accuracy really matters. Just be patient with yourself and be realistic for what your timeline for studying and taking the test is! :)
Could we say that answer choice B is implied by the passage at all, or is it fully wrong and not even implied?
I thought that answer choice B is implied by the passage, but answer choice E is much more strongly implied, making E the correct choice. I believe that B is implied mostly by the third example, where it explicitly says that a small fraction of the people in the room noticed the shirt. This small fraction is not in comparison to the student's expectations, making it possible that answer choice B could be implied in saying that people "tend not to notice."
@mango I agree with your point that "a small fraction of the people noticed" relates to "tend not to notice" in answer choice B. But with the "contrary to the student's expectation" at the end of the stimulus, the focus rather shifts to the comparison with one's own expectation. So even considering only the third example the best illustrated conclusion is E I think.
@mango I know that you're probably long gone but B is making an absolute claim instead of the relative comparison as well as saying that people usually don't notice the appearance or behavior of others with "tend" meaning usually not, or more often than not. If in the first example students assumed that 100% of people could tell they were lying and "vastly overestimated" meant 51% of people that would be a vast overestimate but it would negate the claim that people tend not to notice since the majority do. With the last example "a small fraction could mean 1/10th" and "contrary to the students expectation" could mean that they believed 10/10th's would notice which like I said above negates the" People tend (usually, more often than not) not to notice the appearance or behavior of others."
Never thought my psychology class would come in handy here. Thanks to the girl who did a whole presentation in a really wild t-shirt then pointed out at the end that none of us noticed lol.
I am really stressed by the timing element of the drill! I got the answer right in the blind review because I rushed to get an answer as quickly as I could! frustrating....
yess same! But everyone I have talked to so far just says, since this is mainly on the foundations of the LSAT, we should be focused more on understanding the question and options than the time element. Then, as we get better at understanding how to read the LSAT language, we can start trying to build speed.
Subscribe to unlock everything that 7Sage has to offer.
Hold on there, stranger! You need a free account for that.
We love that you want to get going. Just create a free account below—it only takes a minute—and then you can continue!
Hold on there, stranger! You need a free account for that.
We love that you came here to read all the amazing posts from our 300,000+ members. They all have accounts too! Just create a free account below—it only takes a minute—and then you’re free to discuss anything!
Hold on there, stranger! You need a free account for that.
We love that you want to give us feedback! Just create a free account below—it only takes a minute—and then you’re free to vote on this!
Hold on there, you need to slow down.
We love that you want post in our discussion forum! Just come back in a bit to post again!
Subscribers can learn all the LSAT secrets.
Happens all the time: now that you've had a taste of the lessons, you just can't stop -- and you don't have to! Click the button.
46 comments
For fellow people worried when they see questions being way over time-- These questions are being used to test the skill being taught, but in the context of a real LSAT question. Don't worry about timing yet! It's better to be able to properly do a skill (here it's comparatives) instead of rushing because you're worried about the time.
Is "Comparative Format" a definitive Predictor?
The stimulus is entirely comparative: it sets up a gap between what people expect versus what actually happens.
Answer Choice (E) uses the exact same comparative structure ("more often than is actually the case").
My question is:
How much weight should we give to this structural coincidence? Is a comparative stimulus a guarantee that the correct answer must also be in a comparative format? Or is it possible for the correct answer to be written as a functional statement without the than marker?
I’m trying to determine if hunting for this format match is a reliable shortcut or a potential trap :)
@marianagomes It's very difficult to say this kind of match is required in order for an answer to be correct. The LSAT is great at writing sneaky answers. For example, I think this would be a well supported claim "People's expectations don't always match reality."
one second over but i got it! i was solely looking for the answer i predicted
As soon as I saw the "that," I was able to piece together the answer. Understanding the referentials made this so easy.
Although I chose the correct answer, I do not understand the explanation for why "B" is wrong. By my reasoning, it was wrong for a completely different reason.
@180-Energy something can be wrong for multiple reasons, like 10 is not a prime number bc it is 5*2 and bc it can be broken up into multiple primes, blah blah blah
I chose E because it seemed the most clear answer but i was tempted by C because even though it says E the other way around, i was thinking its saying the same thing; the same way i am older than you and you are younger than me are the same, why cant C also be correct because it is saying the same thing as E the other way around. Why would I assume what I think of other people is different from what others think of me?
@YakovMahgerefteh I don't think C is an example of something being equivalent. The Equivalent Statement to E is "One's appearance and behavior are noticed by others far less than people tend to believe". There is no information on what the observers believe their level of observation is, so we do not know if they are less observant, more observant, or about the same level of observant.
Question for a 7Sage instructor (but happy to have input from others as well!):
7Sage keeps referencing "cultivating habits" like fleshing out referentials, setting aside modifiers to see the passage's core structure, identifying what is being compared, how it is being compares, and which thing wins in comparisons, but I'm unsure of which habits/exercises, if any, you actually want us to be doing on paper as we work through questions in the hopes of getting the right answer.
In other words, can you please explicitly share with us what we should be writing down when we answer these questions? I want to know because, of course, in a perfect non-time-constrained world, we would embrace all of these habits by fleshing out every passage's complexity in every possible way. And maybe, in the beginning, you would like us to? But it is helpful for me to hear whether any of these exercises/habits are actually worthwhile (time-wise) to be jotting down on test day.
Everyone thinks/works differently so I understand that is difficult to broadly advise us, but please let me know of your thoughts. Thank you so much!!
@DeliaCanDoIt! I think the skill builder exercises illustrate the intended habit. When you encounter a comparative, make sure you identify (1) the two things being compared, (2) the quality being compared, and (3) which thing “wins” the comparison.
For test day, most of the advice I’ve seen is that time spent writing is often not a good investment unless you’re returning to a flagged question with time to spare. Part of the purpose of us doing all of this practice is to make it so this type of analysis and reasoning comes naturally and we don’t need the crutch of a diagram or notes to get through this type of question quickly and accurately on test day.
@DeliaCanDoIt! Echoing @tobistein
When it comes to fleshing out referentials and other grammar issues, all of this is supposed to be done in one's mind. (And if you think it'll take too long, it won't!...with enough practice.) So don't take the fact that the videos write stuff out to imply that you should also be writing stuff out. The videos write stuff out for the purpose of instruction.
I need to do a better job in analyzing the answer prompts. I was able to extract the proper meaning out of the comparative claims in the question but failed to see the intricacies of the language used in B and C to be able to better differentiate it from the correct answer in E
@DouglasNeumeyer i answered the exact same way.
I am not sure if I am doing this correct, but finding the conclusion, and reading the statements in the paragraphs, helped me get the right answer (because the right answer also supported the conclusion) Idk if that makes any sense or I'm just simply doing crazy at this point lol.
PS also went over the time suggested :(
I think there is a typo at the end of B. But it is making an absolute claim, correct?
@Jordanabel Right, (B) isn't saying one thing is more or less likely to be noticed than another thing or that the magnitude of something is more or less than another thing.
I think at this stage getting the right answer is far more important than the speed. It means that at least we're making our way to the answer.
I got it correct, but so far over the time. I cant read and comprehend fast enough :(
@DeborahAdel i would say first worry about understanding and getting it right than time as of right now
@DeborahAdel I can understand the frustration. So many people are in the same place as you so don't over-stress. For now, focus on the main concepts & on your off time, it is recommended to habitually read diverse and challenging concepts that you are not familiar with so that you can begin to build a strength in that department. (IE: replace scrolling with going through passages).
1:33 over, but I got it right! Need to stop questioning myself on answers
@MRod Same! I was second guessing myself way too much
27s over but got it right ... B almost tripped me up!
@ClydeB B tripped me up
Yayyy! I got it right!
I’m very happy I got this question right but I was well over the suggested timing it should have taken to answer this question. I’m not discouraged about the time I know I have to work on this skill before I can speed up.
@NaomiSmith Kinda unrelated but -- I've been studying for a bit over a month and came back to this foundations course to better my accuracy and to better analyze questions. All this to say, I'm still far away from working on my timing. Accuracy really matters. Just be patient with yourself and be realistic for what your timeline for studying and taking the test is! :)
Somehow, I got this question right... That was something!
I'm doing ok on the LSAT questions, but I'm always over the suggested time. I feel not good about this
@MRJones me too... but, I think the drills will help us and we will go through reading questions efficiently :) god speed!
i had the right answer and second guessed myself and changed it..... i hate myself
volume on this video is very low.
LSAT ASMR
first question i answered correctly!!!
Could we say that answer choice B is implied by the passage at all, or is it fully wrong and not even implied?
I thought that answer choice B is implied by the passage, but answer choice E is much more strongly implied, making E the correct choice. I believe that B is implied mostly by the third example, where it explicitly says that a small fraction of the people in the room noticed the shirt. This small fraction is not in comparison to the student's expectations, making it possible that answer choice B could be implied in saying that people "tend not to notice."
@mango I agree with your point that "a small fraction of the people noticed" relates to "tend not to notice" in answer choice B. But with the "contrary to the student's expectation" at the end of the stimulus, the focus rather shifts to the comparison with one's own expectation. So even considering only the third example the best illustrated conclusion is E I think.
@mango I know that you're probably long gone but B is making an absolute claim instead of the relative comparison as well as saying that people usually don't notice the appearance or behavior of others with "tend" meaning usually not, or more often than not. If in the first example students assumed that 100% of people could tell they were lying and "vastly overestimated" meant 51% of people that would be a vast overestimate but it would negate the claim that people tend not to notice since the majority do. With the last example "a small fraction could mean 1/10th" and "contrary to the students expectation" could mean that they believed 10/10th's would notice which like I said above negates the" People tend (usually, more often than not) not to notice the appearance or behavior of others."
Never thought my psychology class would come in handy here. Thanks to the girl who did a whole presentation in a really wild t-shirt then pointed out at the end that none of us noticed lol.
I am really stressed by the timing element of the drill! I got the answer right in the blind review because I rushed to get an answer as quickly as I could! frustrating....
yess same! But everyone I have talked to so far just says, since this is mainly on the foundations of the LSAT, we should be focused more on understanding the question and options than the time element. Then, as we get better at understanding how to read the LSAT language, we can start trying to build speed.
What kind of question is this? Would it be Most strongly supported?
Yes!