I am taking my first LSAT in December, but I am leaving open the possibility of pushing it back to Feb if my PT are not where I want them to be. If I do decide to take the Dec test, should I submit my applications as early as possible with no score, and ask for them to be held until my score becomes available? Or should I wait until I have a score and apply later? My biggest concern with submitting without a score is with applications to schools where my GPA is a little below average, but where I think I will be able to achieve an average or above LSAT score with more time. I am worried about what impact it will have if I end up scoring lower than anticipated.

For example:

My UG GPA is a 3.55

Current PT average is a 160, my goal is 165+ and my biggest weakness is LG which I know will improve with drills and practice.

Some schools I'd like to apply to have 3.6/3.7 GPA averages, and 165-168 LSAT averages. I have been out of school for 3 years, have a solid work resume and letters of recommendation.

Any thoughts on this? I'm feeling like every piece of this is so uncertain since I don't have a real score yet! If I am rejected this round from those reach schools, and decide to wait, take the LSAT again, and apply again the following year, does anyone know how a rejection will impact my chances of getting in the following year?

I started filling out applications this week and noticed that Columbia requires a professional LOR for anyone who graduated before 2015 (I graduated in May of 2014). The LORs I secured at the beginning of the year are both from old professors. I immediately reached out to my previous supervisor of 2 years (not my current employer -- for obvious reasons) and asked for a last minute LOR. He happily agreed to write one and I know that he will write a positive recommendation; however, I have never seen him write in any capacity (he's a brilliant data guy -- not necessarily a wordsmith). I will be waiving my right to read the letter, so I'm a bit nervous. Does anyone have any advice as to what I should pass along to him in order to help him write the best LOR he can, we're both clueless about what admissions is looking for in a professional recommendation from a field that isn't particularly relevant to the law. Are there certain characteristics in data analysis/cost forecasting that he can expound upon that would be seen as a bonus to my application? Anyone been in a similar situation? Thanks.

Hi all,

Just looking for a little feedback/wanting to confirm I'm making the right choice here. I am 3+ years out of school and committed to applying to schools this year. I took the LSAT over 2 years ago with minimal studying and scored below the 25% at all T14 schools that I now plan on applying to this cycle. I will be taking the LSAT in December and my current PT average is at the median for about half the schools I plan on applying to in the T14. I hope to raise my score 3-5 points over the next few months, for a little bit greater margin of error for a score I'd be happy with. My GPA is at or above the median for most schools.

My questions is, since I could technically submit a completed application at schools now and then indicate I am retaking the December test, is there any advantage to doing this? I am leaning towards preparing all my applications and then if all goes as planned submitting my applications within a few days of LSAT scores being released in January but just wanted to make sure I was thinking this through correctly and not putting myself at any disadvantage.

Thanks for any advice :)

I've heard a few mixed reviews on the best time to apply. For example, one article expressed that if you do not apply by the end of October the chances of you getting accepted are substantially more slim. Then another article expressed that as long as it is before January there is no rush. Basically, what I want to know is when is the best time to apply before waiting begins to handicap the chances of being accepted?

Hello! I studied LSAT 3 years ago, then I thought it was premature, so I went to a grad school.

I took 2013,December LSAT and at the time I received two LoRs from my undergrad professors, didn't apply. They are still in my LSAC account.

Now I am taking September LSAT. Do I need a new LoR to apply for 2017 or can I just use those ones I already have?

Thank you guys in advance!

Good luck for everyone!

Hi,

My question is regarding the letters of recommendation for LSAC. I decided that I am going to apply next year for law school (not ready for the LSAT), but I want to get my other requirements for the application process out of the way. I was wondering if I get my professors to send my letter of recommendations in this year, if I will be able to use it for next year's application. I just want to make sure that LSAC wont delete the letters from the system when the new application cycle begins.

I tried calling LSAC but they are closed today and I already contacted my professors for the letters of rec.

What key factors makes one letter of recommendation better than another? What would be the wow factor from an admissions standpoint for the letters of recommendation?

Like everyone else here I'm worried about the loans, and I was looking into the early decision full tuition programs, like the one at Northwestern University. Ideally, I wanted to attend school in NYC or Philly, but the chances of getting a really good scholarship are looking slimmer by the minute.

I actually don't know much about Northwestern (other than it's a great school and it's brutally cold in the winter), so I'd obviously look into it a lot more and try to visit the campus before making such an important decision. On the surface though, I was wondering if anyone had any insight on whether or not it's worth it, or whether it's better to see what kind of financial aid/scholarships I could receive.

Thanks!

I'm just curious as to if getting a high school physics professor to write a LOR for me would hurt my application.. He's been a close mentor throughout my years in Undergrad and through my professional career and knows me much better than my college professors. He's a very respected and knowledgeable individual, but I fear that because he works at a HS instead of University it might not hold as much weight. I couldn't find anything on TLS after searching so I thought I would ask here before starting a post over there.

For what it's worth I also plan on including 2 of my University professor's as LOR's as well.. just stuck between my HS Physics teacher and a supervisor at my engineering company as number 3.

My professors said they need it so they get an idea of what my plans are for law school. I'm interested in commercial litigation or corporate law, not really sure yet.

From googling statement of purpose, it looks like it's something for students applying to graduate schools that pretty much says "this is why I want to apply to this program".

I don't feel comfortable giving them my personal statement as it's very...personal. I open it up briefly talking about rough sh*t that happened to me when I was young and that leads into how I'm a stronger person today etc. I'm also only halfway finished with it.

Should I just give them a more generic and less personal version of my personal statement?

I want to get it in to them by late September as I know they won't want to deal with writing a letter of rec during midterms (November) or finals (December).

Hello! After reading through many topics about LORs, I was hoping that someone could help/offer me your opinions.

I am 4 years out of university and I have one letter in the LSAC system from a professor. I had planned on getting a second letter from another professor that I had worked closely with (2 classes + 2 independent studies), however, due to some health issues and oversight from him... I don't feel comfortable asking him for the letter for a third time. (I had asked him twice, followed up each time, but his response to any request for the LOR is to ignore... if I email him about anything else, life updates, etc. he's all ears.)

Therefore, is it okay just to have one letter from a professor whose class was negligible to my credit hours?

Also, is there a specific type of class/professor I should be looking to get a letter of rec from? (I went to an engineering school, so I figure I should be looking towards the humanities professors.)

Side note, after working at a fortune 500 company for a bit, I moved back to my home state to work for the 'family business'. Is it in poor form for me to get a letter of rec from a colleague (unrelated to me in any form; we have a great working relationship/have worked on many projects together)?

Apologies in advance for how awkwardly worded this is... but thank you for any insight!

The 7Sage community has given such sage advice on all things LSAT that I thought I'd throw out a rather unconventional topic to see if anyone cares to weigh in and illuminate me. I was introduced to the dean of my target law school by a friend of mine who is on the board of trustees at the university. He set us up for a lunch meeting on Friday! I'm curious (and a tad nervous truthfully) how to best approach the meeting. I'm confident in my ability to get in to the law school based on my numbers, but I'm working on a higher LSAT score to maximize my scholarship chances. I am curious: what would you say or do if you were in my situation? I have a few ideas but would love the benefit of this group's input.

I feel like this is an incredible opportunity and I want to get it right. Thanks in advance for any tips or ideas!

Hi all. Does anyone have any advice about the deferral process? I'm looking at Top Tier (really top 6) schools and thinking about applying this fall and potentially deferring for a year if I get in. I don't want to put off applying because there's a chance that I may not want to defer. Does anyone know how difficult it is to get a deferral from Harvard, Yale, Columbia etc.?

I just had a professor that is writing a LOR for me ask for a CV. After a Google search, I now know what that is. What all do I need to include on a CV?

I only see "No Active Terms/Programs for this Law School" when I select a US school and choose to start/submit an application, the Canadian schools show the Fall 2016 options but say the Fall 2017 aren't available yet.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Before transferring to my current school,Umich, I was an exchange student from a HK institution to the U of Leeds in UK. However, because Umich started the semester before Leeds' finals, I did not attend finals and didn't get any credit there. I think it can show my diverse experience to include U of Leeds in my CV, but I don't have credits...

Also, how should I cover this 3-month exchange experience in my CV which I have no transcript? Should I specify the reason in Addendum?

Hello all,

I am currently a third year student in law and political science at the university of Lyon, France, and I am planning to go to the US or Canada for the first year of my masters degree in international law. We have access to several universities for that kind of exchange, and I thought it would be interesting to have American students give me advice on which ones are better and why. The universities I'm interested in are:

- USA: Boston university, the university of Southern California and Brooklyn law school

- Canada: McGill, Montreal, and the university of British Columbia in Vancouver.

Could you guys tell me what you think about them and which one would be better according to you, especially for someone looking to study international law?

Hi!

So sorry if this topic has been covered before, I just can't seem to find any information online whatsoever! I've completed my undergrad at an international university and am wondering if anyone has any insights or experience with how LSAC calculates grade conversions? I recall seeing on the LSAC website last summer that they are converted to superior, above average, average, and so forth, but the links seem to have been removed.

Does anyone know anything at all about this process? I'm terrified that my GPA will be lower than I expect and negatively affect my chances of admission this year.

Cheers!

Admins please delete if I am crossing any lines.

These are MY notes from the free webinars put on David Busis and figured that I should host them somewhere for everyone to view/use. This is just scratching the surface for the breadth of information that David provides in the admissions courses, https://classic.7sage.com/enroll-admissions/.

Admission Webinar Notes

Look at the applications for schools you want to get into now, a lot of them share similar topics.

Timeline

-Should start in June, but July is sufficient

-Focus on research and building resume first

-Develop personal statement draft by end of July

-Line up recommenders, give time to reconnect (have conversation, grab coffee, email correspondence, etc)

-Come august you should begin edit the essays, let them evolve

-By September you should be proof reading the essays for easy errors (review it 4, 5, or even 6 times)

-If applications are ready in October, then apply, if not then wait until you have all ducks in a row and papers as best as you possibly can

-If you apply by thanksgiving you're still great and early, February to march is late and should consider waiting until next year.

Before you start you want to sanitize your Social Media, adjust privacy settings, delete embarrassing/not professional photos

Open prompts truly can be about anything

Don't necessarily write about why you're going to law school, if your resume shows real commitment to social justice, have wanted to be forever, then write about it

if your T-14 schools don't really care, write about something not focused on this

Personal Statement (600 - 850 words, if overwrite that ok, it easier to overwrite and cut then underwrite and add)

(There is more on PS below in this post)

-Make them remember who you are, do not brag about what you've done as that what your resume is for

-Diversity Statement, only write if you can write a really really good one, should generally be shorter than personal statement, if it wants to be longer than personal statement than maybe use that as personal statement

-Wont make up for low LSAT scores or low GPA, but could help put your application into the "Yes" pile

-Stories stick in peoples heads more than facts, remember you as the guy who "Locked keys in car, broke into own car, got arrested for breaking into own car"

-If you have a really good reason to be a lawyer, then write about it, otherwise DONT

Diversity Statement (little bit shorter than personal statement)

-A essay about how you would make the campus more diverse, not tied to ethnicity, religion, etc

-Only write diversity statement if you can talk about how your background shaped you

-A good one wont hurt you, but a bad one WILL

Resume (not the same as a job)

-List interests and activities (these two come up in interviews)

-Shows that you're an human being, humanize yourself

-Only include highlights, show off skills or highlights talents

-Keep to one page, admissions will scan for about 30 seconds, so make it scannable with plenty of white space and easy to read formatting

-Only include highlights

-Have quantifiable accomplishments

-Keep it to one page

Letters of Recommendation (need two or three)

-Around 3 LoR is best, no more than 5

-Academics weigh much more heavily

-Those who know you well are much more helpful

-Those who can tell stories about you, help illustrate your personality

-Can give them information about yourself, might include keys for what you want to be highlighted or how you've changed recently

-Reconnect and help them remember who you are or fill them in on what you've done since last seeing them

Character and Fitness Addendum

-Assume admissions can find out anything available via google, social media, etc.

-Disciplinary action at school or ever arrested, assume that everything you don't disclose will go back to bite you

-Figure out what you should call the incident, Class B or Class C misdemeanor

-Show them what you learned and explain to them why its not going to happen again

Weakness Addendum (Extenuating circumstances)

What happened, How are you trying to fix it, What isn't it going to happen again

-Is this a legitimate problem?

-Did i try to fix this problem?

-Is this going to occur in the future?

-Don't write about a weakness you don't want them to know

-Substantiate the lower GPA in mechanical engineering department with a pass rate for EIT /

-Spin this with being military minded, straight line thinking person for the past X years of life

Why school X essay (optional but NOT OPTIONAL, 1 page or less)

-Although these are stated to be optional they are not!

-This is an INTEREST TEST, if you don't write one or write about a generic reason this shows a LACK OF INTEREST

-Must write it if you have the option, this is a interest test

-Have to do research on the school, talk with students, admissions, graduates

-Cite unique reasons, classes, clinics, professors you want to work with

-Don't make it a generalized statement ("Great professors")

-Should be one page or less

Other Essays (Idiosynchratic)

-Compliment or emphasize other parts of your admission packet

-Use this to expound on your "marketing of yourself"

-Georgetown has 5 additional essays

-Use this emphasize one part of your essay, or if you didn't write about why you want to be Lawyer then write that

Brainstorming

-What 5 seconds changed your life, boil it down to a key moment

-When did you change your mind about something

-What is the hardest thing you've ever done

Personal Statement Webinar Notes

A good personal statement topic finds a good center between What Matters to You and What is an Interesting Story (where there exists the most overlap is what you should write about)

-In additional, a good personal statement where there exists an intersection between what Matters to you and What is an Interesting Story AND doest make you look like a douche

-A really good writer can make almost anything an interesting story (I am not a good writer thought....)

-Tells your life story, or a thin slice of your life's story

Do you have an incredible story (something that could be made into a Lifetime movie?)

-If yes, then you want to use that

-If no then DON'T use that --> Brain storm, general rule is that 1 in 10 ideas are good ones

Personal statement should have an internal before and after, should be a lesson that reflects a small journey you made

Questions to ask yourself to find a good topic

1) When did you change your mind, your beliefs, or your goals? Anywhere in your life where you took a new direction, a big inflection point. Maybe it is smaller than significant change, such as a psychodrama.

2) What is the most challenging thing that you've done? What is your mountain? This might be a really good topic because it presents movement 1- the challenge and movement 2- the solution

3) What contributed to your identity? What shaped you or what made you, you? Might be about how you grew up, such as had to raise your siblings. Maybe you were a parking lot attendant and had a bunch of time to focus on something, like reading.

4) What is most surprising about you? It forces you to dig deep about something that will be memorable. Maybe its a hobby, a skill that most people don't have, or an interest most people don't have.

5) (Most powerful statement) What 5 seconds changed your life? Doesn't necessarily have to be actually 5 seconds. Might be easiest to write because you have an identifiable changing point and have a before and after.

6) What made you want to be a lawyer? This is a good topic for anyone who has a good and sincere interest in becoming a lawyer, not a boring reason such as a stable or respected profession. Don't pretend you want to be a lawyer for some abstract reason because your resume will flush out that your interest isn't actually sincere. If you have some use for your UG degree.

Topics can meld together, such as a 5 second change that drove you to want to be a lawyer.

Dudes favorite essays:

1) Tourettes essay - about a time someone who has tourettes his whole life, seemed ordinary from his POV, but from someone else POV its pretty interesting

2) Defending a Neo-Nazi - a African American who ends up defending a Nazi in court

3) Coffee Shop - A 5 second change in this girls life, who normally didn't stand up for herself, but was a pivotal movement for her

4) Paper Cranes - Korean student who moved to Japan who had an inherent distrust for Japanese culture, while making paper cranes in a park

5) Max's Death - An VETs story about an Iraqi Soldier who died while trying to get his Green Card, focus's more on his relationship between the two NOT ABOUT MAX

6) Tourne - Someone who could make a type of food, tourne, and his struggle

7) Women like you - About a woman who was harassed in a police station in South Korea, turns that moment about being harassed into what are her core beliefs

The best personal statements touch on the MOST IMPORTANT THING IN YOUR LIFE

Things to ask:

1) Do you play an active part in this story? If you're not active then the topic probably doesn't work

2) Can you illustrate the point with specific anecdotes and details? These are the "bricks" that build your essay. If you can't remember specific details about the event, it might be a shitty essay because it will be vague

3) Is the topic important to you? Can you write about it sincerely?

4) Is it "the time that"?

Things to NOT DO:

1) Don't say what you're not sincere about because you think its what they want to hear, the admissions will flush out your bullship

Bad Essays Example Topics:

1) The time I witnessed injustice essay, unless you were wronged or people you were connected to were wronged, then this is not going to seem sincere. Did you try to, or actually, do something about it? Did you actively act on that cause?

2) The Blah Business School Essay

-Did this experience working at the internship, or working at your job, matter to you? Did it change you? If not then it will feel like blah.

-Is your accomplishment something special, or was it just doing your job? Sometimes just doing your job can have a sense of nobility.

3) The essay about the obstacle that's not really an obstacle.

-Disappointments are not real obstacles

-Is this an actual obstacle or is this a disappointment?

4) The Two-Headed Essay

-Writer doesn't really know what he wants to write about and morphs into something weird

-Do I have more than one topic?

-Is every paragraph part of the same story?

5) The Headless Essay

-People writing about their resume or writing about

-Can you explain what this essay is about in one sentence or less? If you can't then you probably don't have a good essay

Notes from Admissions webinar on Personal Statement:

Personal Statement (600 - 850 words, easier to overwrite and cut)

-Make them remember who you are, do not brag about what you've done as that what your resume is for

-Diversity Statement only if you can write a really really good one, should generally be shorter than personal statement, if it wants to be longer than personal statement than maybe use that as personal statement

-Wont make up for low LSAT scores or low GPA, but could help put your application into the "Yes" pile

-Stories stick in peoples heads more than facts, remember you as the guy who "Locked keys in car, broke into own car, got arrested for breaking into own car"

-If you have a really good reason to be a lawyer, then write about it, otherwise DONT

Useful resource for examples of PS that worked

University of Chichago School of Law Admissions Letters: http://www.law.uchicago.edu/alumni/magazine/spring11/intheirownwords

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/node/1451

I took the LSAT last December with the attention of going to Law School in Fall. I was extremely busy when I originally took the test and barley studied. Unfortunately, I scored in the 150's. I decided I was going to retake the test when I had more time to study and not apply to last school until the next year. However, several schools sent me application waivers. Out of the schools that sent me application waivers one was Northeastern which is a school that I am interested in attending. They have an excellent public interest law program which is my area of interest. I'm now studying for the LSAT full-time to retake in December with way more time on my hands than I had last year. My goal is to score to score "165" but whatever my score im likely to score way better than the first test I took in December based upon my performance on practice test. Should I wait to submit my northeastern law application until my new lsat score comes in in December or should I submit it with the old one?

Hi all,

So I want to spiff up my resume a bit and do some community service around my city on the weekends. I've decided on Habitat for Humanity. I basically just signed up and can choose any day im available (mostly Sats because I work full-time). It's surprisingly easy.

How often should I do it?

How long do I have to do it before I can actually put it on my resume?

Should I get proof of volunteering and send it with my apps to law school?

I'm an old 7Sager who's (f i n a l l y) done with the LSAT but has returned for some much needed advice on personal statements! I've started writing four or five different statements, but I've hated all of them. I know I just missed an opportunity recently with the seminar thing, but does anyone have advice on narrowing down personal statement topics? As in, what to avoid? It's too early for me to spend money on an essay editing service, because I don't even like it myself!

First off, I will be applying to law schools this fall after the September LSAT. Do you all have any pointers regarding exactly when's a good time to begin the application process? For instance, when should I contact my references for the Letters of Recommendations? I feel very alone in this process, and don't necessarily feel like I have a lot of people with this sort of know-how. Any advice, pointers, or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. :)

Okay, here is my conundrum: I will be taking the LSAT for the 3rd and final time in September. However, I don't feel absolutely confident that I will be able to raise my score to my desired level from now until September. I am considering postponing until December, but am curious how much that late application might affect my chances of being admitted to the law school of my choice, assuming I meet my target LSAT score. This is a great community, and was curious as to what you 7sagers would advise; postpone till December in hopes of a higher LSAT at the risk of a late application, or go ahead and push through these courses quickly, hope for the best on my 3rd LSAT, and apply to school early (middle October)???

I know that softs can play a bigger factor for NTD students when it comes to admissions. What are some of those? I have picked up a few extra things over the past 2 years to help but wanted to see if @david.busis and perhaps @"Mike Spivey" could add a few tips or suggestions. While we are getting close to application time, there are still a few programs and opportunities available to do before needing to submit apps.

For instance, would being a "Fulbright Specialist/Candidate" have as much weight as a traditional "Fulbright Scholar" as a soft? I have often read that being a Fulbright or a Marshall Scholar is an outstanding soft that carries weight.

What about other things like:

Serving on a nonprofit board?

Lengthy Volunteering?

Conference Speaking?

Publishing in a Trade Magazine?

Obtaining or updating professional certificates?

For instance, I have both a PHR and a SHRM-CP. I updated the CLEs for my PHR so it goes through 2020, my SHRM-CP expires in 2018, but I can update it too in a month, to extend it to 2021. Or is just having those enough? The are both Human Resources certifications, equivalent to a CPA in the account world. You have to have enough experience to qualify to take them exam, pass (it has less than a 65% pass rate) and then maintain it via CLEs. I have been certified since 2004.

Do those hold any sway as far as "good softs" go?

Does anyone else know of important softs? I know I overlooked a career, but I will assume that those that are 30+ have had at least 5 years of professional experience in their field.