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15 Likes
Challenges in being a female lawyer
Hi all,
Saw these two articles today -- one about the challenges facing female trial lawyers, and another about harassment in BigLaw. I'm posting these here for two reasons: first, as a future female lawyer, they were very eye opening to read. Secondly, I've been inspired by how supportive and respectful this community is, and I really hope that all of us here will be part of a change in the profession.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/09/female-lawyers-sexism-courtroom/565778/
Comments
Thanks! I have career goals, myself, in becoming trial lawyer and I am female. Most appreciated.
Thanks for posting this! I want to pursue this field as well and it’s discouraging (yet, sadly not surprising) to know this is the reality many female trial lawyers have to face.
Hope this will change in the future, but as the article pointed out, the situation is bleak.
Yeah, I feel the same way. That's one reason why I posted this -- it would be really heartening to know that future male lawyers entering law school were cognizant of this and hoping to change it. Given that this community is so supportive, it makes me feel hopeful that there are at least some future lawyers/judges on this forum who won't act in the same way.
Thanks for sharing this article! It's super interesting and makes me think about how I will have to conduct myself in court in the future.
I sometimes cannot wrap my head around how prevelant these biases are in society and yet people still have the audacity to claim that we have achieved equality.
Misogyny happens within law firms as well. Coming from male coworkers and clients and defense counsel. It’s really frustrating.
Really, there's no profession you could go into these days without facing these issues as a woman. It's going to be a bit of a battle no matter what. It's appalling, but not surprising when I read articles like this one.
I think a lot will change by the time our generation is established in the profession but as long as trials have winners and losers some things wont change. If winning is what makes a successful trial lawyer, those willing to do what ever it takes to win, however abhorrent, will be the most successful. Hopefully in the future things wont be as bad as these articles make it out to be.
Also the few female trial lawyers I've met have been pretty bad ass people. Makes me wonder if it's a product of their work environment or if they were born with that kind of poise and presence.
This is actually something that most women have struggled with including myself. To be successful as a women you have to somehow become hardened. You can never show weakness or emotion. I know some men struggle with this as well. It would be nice to one day be able to genuine and humble while still being able to be respected and successful.
I love this! In my opinion the people who have truly struggled to gain equality the most is women. Regardless of race or ethnicity it has been women as a whole that have to continue on a daily basis to prove their worth. It's no secret in every aspect of life women have to fight twice as hard and are continuously undervalued. We have a lot more to offer the world than people care to see. I can't wait for the days when true equality of genders and races is finally achieved.
Feeling that kind of pressure to be tough started for me in elementary school. I'm not sure but I think women don't really feel it until they hit the workplace, which is kind of handicapping if you're expected to be on the same level emotionally as your male peers.
I think it really depends on the type of environment you’re raised in. I was raised by man who took care of 3 daughters by himself. He did the best he could but certainly lacked empathy in regards to emotions whether that was our own emotions or others. He didn’t want us to be run over by people in the real world so we had to be strong, independent and tough. This came naturally to me but as an adult I have experienced what happens when you bury it all. I’ve also witnessed it happen to young boys. At 15 i watched my 8 year old step brother get in trouble for crying when he got hurt. He was told crying is for girls. This came from his father who spent many years as a marine. Unfortunately it will take a while before things change but I think it is headed there.
Love this post so much.
No idea what it's like in the work force.
If you're interested in big law, you can take some solace knowing that firms give a big boost to women interested in SAs.
I understand you completely Aly! I went through the same thing and similarly, both of my parents were single after their divorce. Both raised me to suck up my emotions and instilled in me that I have to become a strong, independent, and tough woman to shield myself from anything people may throw at me. I think things are definitely headed in the right direction because now society applauds head strong women as opposed to believing they were radical or "crazy".
What does SA stand for?
Summer Associate. It's a summer job for law students that pays big bucks and usually results in being offered an Associate position when you graduate.
Many firms have diversity programs and they include all women in that category.
Thank you!
The Atlantic article was circulated by one of the male partners at the IP litigation firm I work at, and he called it "interesting". After working at this firm for two years now, I would think that recounts of blatant sexism by opposing counsel and judges would not surprise me anymore, but it's a slap in the face, every single time. That said, I've been lucky enough to work with female litigators who do stand up to male opposing counsel when they're clearly being discriminatory, but at the same time some of these same female litigators happily engage in frat-broish banter with the male partners at our firm, making comments about how a female attorney giving a CLE is "wearing too much make up" or how a female CEO "looks bloated"...
What would you consider equality? Equal representation? Equal distribution?
You're presuming that equal opportunity must entail equal distribution/representation when it does not. When people say that we have achieved equality, they mean that the opportunity is equal. But equal opportunity does not entail that the representation must be equal. Now of course you could say that the opportunity isn't equal, but a skewed distribution is not enough to prove it(and definitely not anecdotal cases).
The point is that people claim that, legally, women are equal. We have equal rights. We’re allowed to vote, we’re allowed to go to school with men, we’re allowed to work. But in practice, in reality, we are not treated equally. Just bc we technically have equal rights and some women hold positions of power does not mean that women are viewed as/ treated as equals in society.
^^^ This.
We have legal protections for equality, but socially, we do not. If you're married or dating, do a fun little experiment together. Make up a car issue. Have her call auto shops and get a quote. Now, you call and ask the same. It will be shocking if you, the male, receive quotes that aren't significantly cheaper, and you are dealt with more directly and respectfully.
I have seen this numerous times, the last time was calling for a locksmith last month. Both me and a friend called around everywhere for her door. When they didn't give a vague answer or complete run around, they all gave us a very extreme number. My husband gives it a try, asking the exact same question, and he is given a quote under $100 dollars, no vague answers.
This kind of treatment occurs all the time. If I had a dime for every time someone questioned my emotional capabilities, my knowledge and intelligence, my hormones/time of the month, mansplained something I already knew to me... I could work pro bono and retire. Why? Because I can pretty much count on it happening to me for the rest of my life, too. It's the way things are for us. Life is very different living as a female. I can't go a week without hearing a female friend somewhere who was sexually harassed in some way, either at work, or on a bus, out for a walk, at a store, etc. It's all the time. And I'm not saying someone flirted. I'm talking cat calls followed by expletive filled tantrums when she doesn't respond. Being treated like crap at work. Fighting for basic raises that their male counterparts get automatically.
We may have had some progress, but we have a long way to go.
Here's another thing--a recent article on labor research reported a study on a large number of organizations in the United States and saw this trend: fathers of young children had a tendency to be promoted and given more work, while mothers of young children were much less likely to get promoted and/or given more work. It's called "The Open Secret of Anti-Mom Bias at Work" and was published in May of this year.