Hello all! I’m struggling with choosing between two amazing law schools (that I’ve somehow been admitted into for this Fall) and would really appreciate any perspectives/advice you have on the situation.

I’ve been accepted into UVA Law at sticker price (I tried to ask for more scholarship money once already without success), and WashULaw with a substantial scholarship. I’d be paying for my whole education through loans so the scholarship at WashU is very attractive and overall it would be about $100,000 less to go to WashU than UVA. However, I’m interested in criminal law and national security law and UVA has the programs, faculty and courses that I’m interested in the most.

I’ve thought about ways to mitigate the huge debt I would have at UVA such as getting into BigLaw for a while after graduating or the fact that UVA has the Virginia Loan Forgiveness Program which would help with my loan repayments if I’m in public service. But I’m not sure about staking my $250,000 worth of debt repayment on getting into BigLaw (even though UVA is really good in the BigLaw job market). I’m also worried about the ability to stay in the top percentile of the class at a T14 law school which would affect my ability to get a BigLaw position.

I’m just wondering what others think of the choice and if it is reasonable to choose UVA Law over WashU despite the difference in debt. Thank you in advance!

Or can I pay the full deposit at the second deposit deadline? Also, if I pay only the first deposit - will that be guaranteed to hold my spot until at least the second deposit deadline? Thanks.

Hi everyone,

I'm kind of an uncommon case and could not find an exact reply to my questions. So here we go:

I've got a 162 in the LSAT and a 3.4 undergrad gpa.

I moved to the US, because of my dad's work, when I was 15 and due to previous foreign education, skipped a few years and graduated with 16.

I had a basic level of English and where I come from nobody moves cities for Universiry nor is there any application process. Therefore I went to an ok public school.

I didn't know what to major in and choose a hard STEM major. I kind of struggled and once I changed to something I liked my GPA was better. Since I did now know when I had to leave the US i took summer school and finish my undergrad in less than 3 years.

After that, due to work restrictions I did an MBA where I got an improved GPA.

I have 5 nationalities, one of them Mexican and I use to have a green card. I've lived in 3 different continents and have travelled to 70+ countries so I'm quite international. Therefore I want to do international law (i'm open to either private or public.)

My questions are:

I'm applying to pretty much all the top 14 schools and if I don't get in I'll retake or rethink my career path.

I currently live in a very expensive country and cannot afford to take a few months to study for the LSAT.

I've been working for the past 6 years in private and investment banking for 16+ hours a day so I could not focus as much as I wanted. However for personal reasons I do not want to delay anymore my applications.

BTW I've received fee waivers for almost all the schools that I want to apply to and I think that I have excellent albeit work LOR's.

Thank y'all very much for your time!

I would highly appreciate any feedback from the two schools. Hastings is less expensive than LLS and I am getting more financial aid. But I’ve always been told to look into the bar pass rate for each school. I get so confused on what the actual number or percentage is because the schools says something different than monthly reports from ABA. Does anyone know what the bar passage rate for these schools are or how to correctly interpret the percentages online? I feel like both schools are in the city and offer a lot of job opportunities. But I am so confused on how to pick a school. Any help or feedback would be highly appreciated!!!

I am just beginning the brainstorm for my personal statement.

I want to write about a traumatic event from my childhood. Essentially when I was 7, my grandmother was killed in a hit and run accident. The person was never identified or convicted. My grandmother was an illegal immigrant from Mexico living in Chicago.

The reason I want to write about this topic is because it has shaped me out in every way, to be the person I am today. It forced me at young age to feel that sense of betrayal, anger and discrimination. Which as a young adult, those feelings drove me to study an undergraduate degree in International Business (focus in diversity and inclusion) because I never wanted anyone to feel what my family felt. Additionally, the situation has been a driver in my pursuit to study law because I always felt a sense of injustice with the situation.

I realize this entire explanation is very vague, and I am just beginning to truly piece the emotions with how they relate to my choices later in life but I am confident they are connected. I'm just wondering, before I really dive in, is this too personal? Is this not the route a personal statement is supposed to take?

I studied my undergrad degree for 3.5 years and graduated in Dec 2018. I have been in the workforce and at the same company for 2 years this April. So I am very open to any advice about applying to schools, studying and writing essays since I am a bit removed from the academic setting.

thank you!

So I am highly considering UCI law due to generous scholarship and their overall ABA reports. Originally, I was on the fence about the school because it's relatively new... However, it does seem like they have been performing well overall especially for being such a young law school. I will admit that their recent drop in rankings is concerning to me. Are there any current UCI students I can talk to here or can shed some light on their drop in rankings? I know rankings aren't everything but I am curious as to why they dropped so much. Of course, any and all opinions are welcome whether you go to UCI or not. Just need some help deciding and getting some overall insight since it's seems like a top contender for me right now. I am still waiting to hear back from a couple more schools and am currently trying to get off a waitlist at another school, but definitely considering UCI. I would love to get some details on their overall law school system and administration as well. Thanks!

For context, I am not big law or bust. Not PI either. I'm interested in IP/Patent law or healthcare/ medical malpractice law so far (still fluid. Figured I would find out what I like in law school). Graduated with a science degree and also plan on practicing in CA

Hello everyone,

I applied to the University of Illinois about a month ago, shortly before the deadline. I have not heard back yet. On their website, it says their first deposit is due on April 19. I don't really know what this means. Even though I have not heard of a decision, could/should I pay this deposit?

Hello all, I applied for about 10 schools back in January and beginning of February as I was thinking I needed to get on it. I only applied to schools where I was at their median LSAT or better. My GPA is over the 75th. I am in Canada, so not sure if that makes a difference. I have only received 3 acceptances so far, and 1 rejection from a school that I was WAY over there medians (it was my 1st choice school so pretty disappointed)....is anyone else waiting for months without hearing back from the law schools they applied to? I have checked with a few schools and they replied back that they are still reviewing applications....but wondering if this experience is unique to me, or are others waiting 8+ weeks to hear back.

And...has anyone had any luck on appealing and renegotiating scholarships this year?

@"Lucas Carter" where are you? Tell me everything!

5 down, 9 to go... 2 A's, 3 R's, and a WL. If anyone else was crazy enough to apply late in this wild cycle, there's hope!

Hey everyone,

I took the November lsat. I went through the whole application process and have some solid options for fall 2021. I am wondering if anyone has any advice on picking a school. Deposits are due April 15 so time is winding down :’) I received a full ride to a “lower ranked” school and substantial scholarship at some sorta higher ranked schools (nothing T1 the LSAT wouldn’t allow it:’)))) I am on the wait list for my top school (T2) which I knew would be a reach anyway due to my lsat being below their median.

I know more goes into this decision than rankings (I hate them!!!) I wasn’t really able to visit many places due to COVID - a lot of schools are still virtual or hybrid or just not doing in person tours. Hard to get a feel of where I could see myself for 3 years. I have been looking at employment outcomes and bar passage rates and where alumni are located. I’ve lived in Pennsylvania my whole life and I am perfectly happy living here and practicing law here. I’m not aiming for BigLaw - I really don’t see the point in selling my life away to be knees deep in debt at a job I hate?!?

Would you take the full ride to the lower ranked school? Or would you pay 100K + more for your top choice if lifted from the waitlist? My top choice is in PA, my full ride school is in Ohio. I am confident I can find employment in PA even though I went to school in Ohio. I have professional connections here (I took off some time to work full time before applying to law school).

I guess I really just want to know if anyone has any thoughts - this decision is huge I know. The financial freedom that comes with not paying any tuition is extremely appealing. I have worked and saved and I may not take out a loan for living. Debt free for grad school?!? Ahhhhh!!!!

Thanks in advance

I feel like I am spinning my wheels here, but a minor traffic violation aka my speeding ticket doesn't need to be reported with this statement: "Have you ever been convicted of any offense, excluding minor traffic and parking violations, or is any such charge now pending against you?"

Hi all! I plan on taking the June 2021 LSAT for the first time and hoping I won't need to take it again. I've been out of undergrad for 3 years, and I was curious to know, when should I start asking for LOR? I plan on diversifying my recs with a professor, senator, judge, and past employer (post grad). I want to respect the time of the people I ask, but also, I'm nervous about asking too early and not getting the score I wanted and prolonging me going. I'm also very interested in applying early so that I can potentially secure an early admissions spot.

TL;DR - How far away from the application cycle should you start asking for letters of rec and how long are they generally still "good" for?

Hello! I applied February 1st to two law schools and haven't heard back from them. Should I be worried or am I just overthinking? Has COVID affected the admissions process and the length of time it takes to hear back from the schools? Anything would help calm my anxiety down!!

A

So I recently got waitlisted at Northwestern (honestly shocked because I fully expected an auto reject lmao) and was wondering if it’s worth a shot to try and get off the waitlist by doing their Kira interview and extra written responses. In addition, if I do this, when should I send a LOCI to NU? Is there hope getting off the waitlist? I always saw WLs as soft rejections and never really thought much about them, but I really do like NU and it’s the one WL that I feel is worth trying for right now. But I have to admit that seeing some of the crazy waitlists (U mich for example), I wonder if there’s actually any hope lol I am still waiting to hear back from 6 schools so things may change, but any advice for getting off the WL is greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Deciding between two schools

SMU and FSU

I would rather prefer Texas but FSU would cost me about 65k less over three years ... when you add interest it comes out to more ... but SMU grads make on average a lot more money coming out

FSU cost of attendance ( $47000 on average per year)

SMU cost of attendance ($ 69,000 per year)

https://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/understanding-and-implications-of-the-new-usnwr-law-school-rankings-methodology/

First, 3% weight will be applied to the average amount of graduate debt incurred by students in the previous year’s graduating class. Only students who have taken on law school debt will be counted in this metric. Higher average debt will hurt; lower average debt will help.

Second, 2% weight will be applied to the proportion of a school’s graduating class who incurred law school debt. Again, higher proportions will hurt; lower proportions will help.

To make room for these new factors, U.S. News has reduced the weighting of two categories. The “Selectivity” factors have been reduced from 25% weight to 21%. Median test scores will now count for 11.25% of rankings, median GPA will count for 8.75%, and acceptance rate will count for 1%.

The Faculty Resources metric has been reduced from 15% weight to 14%.

Some data to play with from LST: https://data.lawschooltransparency.com/costs/debt/?scope=schools

School Avg Loan % of students

Yale University $134,763 70%

Stanford University $147,385 62%

Harvard University $169,968 69%

Columbia University $172,656 65%

University of Chicago $168,429 64%

New York University $168,745 64%

Pennsylvania $167,993 64%

University of Virginia $162,395 63%

Berkeley $154,203 67%

Northwestern $135,597 65%

University of Michigan $126,425 72%

Duke University $143,774 68%

Cornell University $154,195 66%

Georgetown $166,164 66%

UCLA $126,164 69%

Texas $109,189 60%

WUSTL $101,283 65%

USC $131,938 69%

Vanderbilt $121,684 70%

Spivey predictions before the new methodology was announced: https://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/2022-usnwr-law-school-rankings-predictions/

(1) Yale

(2) Stanford

(3) Harvard

(4) Columbia

(4) Chicago

(6) New York University

(7) Penn

(8) University of Virginia

(9) University of California- Berkeley

(9) Northwestern

(11) University of Michigan

(11) Duke

(13) Cornell

(13) Georgetown

(15) University of California- Los Angeles

(16) Washington University in St. Louis

(17) University of Texas- Austin

(17) Vanderbilt

(17) University of Southern California

I'm thinking Chicago edges out CLS, the current 3 way split at 9 breaks up. Just outside maybe WUSTL bumps UT. All in good fun... I think rankings come out on the 30th. Also I am apparently incapable of formatting in markdown.

So I just had a law school interview today, and I'd like to send a thank you note, but I can't find the interviewer's email address. Should I send a thank you to the general admissions office and address my interviewer by name? Or should I write something like "Dear Admissions Office" ? Any insight would be appreciated!

If you had to choose between auwcl( no scholarship) v. Syracuse law half scholarship. Which school you choose and why ?

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Hey folks, I got into a law school, a fairly good one (top 50) without taking the LSAT (some schools have an LSAT exemption policy). The cost is also not really a relevant discussion here. My question: do I take the opportunity and go or do I take the LSAT and risk it? Right now I am testing in the low 160s and have never scored higher than a 163. Thoughts?

Does LSAC include Master's degree GPA?

Or does it only calculate Bachelor's degree GPA?

When submitting applications, after paying for the law school report & checking out, is it submitted instantaneously or does it take a few days to process? Trying to meet an April 1st deadline for a certain school and wanted to know if I can submit on April 1st or if I have to do it days before, leaving time for processing. Thank you in advance.

Hola all I'm Mark I got a 169 in October and had around 20 apps ready to fire away as soon as I got my test results back. I'd like to share my results so far as well as some waitlist management advice. I've been obsessing about getting off the waitlist and have done a ludicrous amount of research (research sounds better than obsession).

I am what the Dean of admissions at Yale called a "super soft" aka military veteran and my ugpa was 3.42 which is notably low for t14.

Accepted with scholarship: Uga, Emory, Notre Dame

Denied: Harvard, Chicago, Cornell, Berkeley

Waitlist: UCLA, Georgetown, Northwestern, Penn, Michigan

My top choice is Northwestern and I'm doing everything in my control to get off their waitlist. Ultimately it will come down to how their class looks after their first and second deposit deadlines and what they class needs in terms of student demographic composition, and what the school's/Dean's goals are for that class (based on interviews I've listened to from Deans admissions officers etc).

Here is my waitlist advice I've gleaned from Harvard and Yale Deans, Michigan ad com officers, Harvard as com person, Michigan person, + my personal interactions with adcom.

Waitlist: do whatever the school asks in their waitlist email. Every 3-4 weeks and especially just after/before their deposit deadline write a letter of continued interest loci. You can print and handsign then upload as a PDF. Some schools don't care about loci format others may. In loci you can specify certain clinics, work programs, professors, courses that you're interested in. It really looks good if those are linked to a topic you expressed interest in in a PS or resume. Show how you love the city / want to live in the school's area. If you have a specific reason you like the school mention it. If it's your #1 pick and you would attend no matter what, say so. Be careful mentioning other competing offers - comes off as threat.

That's not exhaustive but it's a pretty good start. Best of luck!

Do you think you can only be successful so long as you go to a t14 or do you think you can be successful career-wise in any school you attend ??

Admin note: edited title to comport with meme