i got e correct , but once i watched the video it is much more compelling that if we were to negate c that it would genuinely shatter the argument... i know that it doesn't go by the rulebook of structure etc etc but it is quite annoying that if you do the negate rule e is actually way weaker and c would make a ton more sense
@kimwexler Do you remember that New York animal question. The one where the rule was you can keep a pet if the building is more than 10 stories and you haven't kept it openly and notoriously. I think you can go back there. It was right after kick the premise up take domain part and around embedded conclusion in the grammar lessons
I'm confused why E is correct. Yeah, they talk about the similarity of fins and wings, but don't we then have to assume that birds hunt their prey over long distances? I mean I guess they do, but I don't KNOW that.
@RyanAlexander ik its been a minute since u commented this but...
with these questions i always think whats missing/ why can't this arguement connect?
the arguement here is that they prob hunted over long distances, and then it mentions the long and thin fins.
what the heck do fins have to do with the long distances? thats ur answer, ur answer is what bridges the arguement together no matter the level of support
I have another question: can I ascertain that for other NA questions that have an analogy, I can just focus on the analogy and picking an answer choice that relates to the analogy and "strengthens" it? Because I got this question wrong when i tried, but when I listened to the explanation I had a "Duh of course" moment
I remember in the beginning JY said one way to distinguish necessary assumption AC's is to negate the answer and see if the stim falls apart, but also that he doesn't recommend we ever use this in practice.........
@breezyprabahar944 in theory yes. the correct answer for necessary assumptions, if you negate it the entire argument of the stim falls apart, every time. the reason i think JY doesn't recommend using it all the time is its slow to go through every AC and negate all of them. but i'd still say this technique a useful tool to have in your bag, especially for checking if an answer you picked is right.
So, for these questions, are we analyzing the argument and identifying what the author is taking to be true?? I don't want to say 'condition', but also there's no other way to describe it lol
I think I confused necessary vs sufficient...yet again. I thought the argument's weakest point was the missing connection between the premise and the conclusion and overlooked the analogy.
If Plesiosauromorph fins, like bird wings, were specialized for long-distance flight, that still doesn't strengthen the argument that Plesiosauromorphs were long-distance hunters..
But the argument first requires that the author's analogy make sense and consequently that their fins are specialized for long distance flight for the author to even argue that they hunted prey over long distance. That is what is necessary.
It is not sufficient, but necessary.
If I write it out, it becomes much clearer but it's like my brain hits a reset button and struggle when I see a new problem. lol
@SaulMcGill i dont personally like the negate suggestion. it makes me more confused. the thing thats been helping me is asking "is this really necessary"
@Eliana_Warner Probably not. We don't know if Plesiosauromorph was able to find enough food to meet the caloric requirements dictated by its body size, so the contrapositive isn't triggered. Hence, you couldn't get to the conclusion.
have a separate notebook based on my own short comings, i write notes based on what I see I am lacking in. So if I tend to read fast and miss a few words, I tend to focus on words that I often overlook and make note of examples of those, etc.
I usually write down a quick bullet point for the summary and then copy the stem and stimulus. Once I answer the question independently, I record my answer and reasoning. Then, I write down the correct answer and just the logic explanation from the video and key takeaways that highlight my mistakes.
I think the reason that it is confusing is because some SA and some NA answers will look the same. The thing is that NA questions can be different. So just keep your eyes peeled for when they do differ. In those cases NA correct answers will just be pretty weak and not really support the argument.
the way I think of it is that SA, I play the answer choice like before the conclusion, and it should help the conclusion statement, but for NA, the answer choice kinda like floats in the background bc it just helps us understand the whole argument
Can someone explain why he talks about the right answer choice as potentially "too strongly stated", why is that relevant to NA? Is it because typically very strongly stated claims are too strong to be necessary? I find it confusing because what does it matter if it's strong, if it's necessary it's necessary.
I think it's helpful to think as too strong as "Powerful" answer choices. If this were strengthening, we would need a powerful AC like "the long and thin wings of a bird work the same as aquatic animals for long distance". This is powerful and brings in outside facts. But we don't necessarily need that here. The converse is "provable" answer choices which is AC E. I reccomened looking at the "Loophole" Book by Ellen Cassidy on this Powerful v. Provable framework.
How can we be sure when an additional added premise is an analogy rather than just extra context intended to distract? I understand the logic present in providing data on birds in a stimulus on dinosaurs and "therefore that data must have some bearing on the dinosaurs."
But the fact that "most experts believe they lurked and quickly ambushed prey" is only relevant to the answer insomuch as it's negated by the author.
How can we quickly tell what info is "argument load-bearing" and what is "fluff" other than just intuition?
I am glad you officially told me not to say the name. Been doing this when reading books for years. I also like to make them more crude to help me memorize. So this would be a pissypants dinosaur.
My only fear is when I become a lawyer my clients see my notes and wonder why I have them listed as Mr. Ragu and not his official name: Raghunandan Venkateshwaran Harikrishna Sharma. Come on Ragu.. give me a break here. :)
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78 comments
JY was so sassy with the wrong answers on this one lol
i got e correct , but once i watched the video it is much more compelling that if we were to negate c that it would genuinely shatter the argument... i know that it doesn't go by the rulebook of structure etc etc but it is quite annoying that if you do the negate rule e is actually way weaker and c would make a ton more sense
C. Was wrong for me because it spoke about caloric requirements. We don’t care how many calories it needs to eat.
D. Said most marine animals but I thought it was wrong because what marine animals are we talking about?
A. Wrong because common ancestors? Where do we know that?
B. Cool but? If they were the only one who cares?
The negation rule is really saving my life. These necessary assumption questions are a breeze.
1st. Identify the conclusion and premise.
2nd. Go through the answer choices and find which one is necessary through the negation rule.
I do the negation rule in my head. This question only took me a minute to get it right.
So D follows logically from the conclusion?
Can NA questions have a general answer? Like with the Prince questions?
where can i review rule application reasoning? i think thats why both NA and SA questions are so hard for me.
@kimwexler Do you remember that New York animal question. The one where the rule was you can keep a pet if the building is more than 10 stories and you haven't kept it openly and notoriously. I think you can go back there. It was right after kick the premise up take domain part and around embedded conclusion in the grammar lessons
I'm confused why E is correct. Yeah, they talk about the similarity of fins and wings, but don't we then have to assume that birds hunt their prey over long distances? I mean I guess they do, but I don't KNOW that.
@RyanAlexander ik its been a minute since u commented this but...
with these questions i always think whats missing/ why can't this arguement connect?
the arguement here is that they prob hunted over long distances, and then it mentions the long and thin fins.
what the heck do fins have to do with the long distances? thats ur answer, ur answer is what bridges the arguement together no matter the level of support
I have another question: can I ascertain that for other NA questions that have an analogy, I can just focus on the analogy and picking an answer choice that relates to the analogy and "strengthens" it? Because I got this question wrong when i tried, but when I listened to the explanation I had a "Duh of course" moment
I remember in the beginning JY said one way to distinguish necessary assumption AC's is to negate the answer and see if the stim falls apart, but also that he doesn't recommend we ever use this in practice.........
is it concerning i use it all the time.
@TheBigFatPanda has it helped you identify the right answer everytime?
@breezyprabahar944 in theory yes. the correct answer for necessary assumptions, if you negate it the entire argument of the stim falls apart, every time. the reason i think JY doesn't recommend using it all the time is its slow to go through every AC and negate all of them. but i'd still say this technique a useful tool to have in your bag, especially for checking if an answer you picked is right.
@TheBigFatPanda That makes sense thanks!
Yeah.. dont worry about the pronunciation... proceeds to pronounce it perfectly lolll
So, for these questions, are we analyzing the argument and identifying what the author is taking to be true?? I don't want to say 'condition', but also there's no other way to describe it lol
I think I confused necessary vs sufficient...yet again. I thought the argument's weakest point was the missing connection between the premise and the conclusion and overlooked the analogy.
If Plesiosauromorph fins, like bird wings, were specialized for long-distance flight, that still doesn't strengthen the argument that Plesiosauromorphs were long-distance hunters..
But the argument first requires that the author's analogy make sense and consequently that their fins are specialized for long distance flight for the author to even argue that they hunted prey over long distance. That is what is necessary.
It is not sufficient, but necessary.
If I write it out, it becomes much clearer but it's like my brain hits a reset button and struggle when I see a new problem. lol
Maybe i'm just being obtuse, but I feel like negating each answer choice to see if it breaks the argument takes too much time.
@SaulMcGill i dont personally like the negate suggestion. it makes me more confused. the thing thats been helping me is asking "is this really necessary"
Would C be the right answer is this were an SA question?
@Eliana_Warner Probably not. We don't know if Plesiosauromorph was able to find enough food to meet the caloric requirements dictated by its body size, so the contrapositive isn't triggered. Hence, you couldn't get to the conclusion.
wow this is SUCH a hard Q. I dont know how Id do this on my own - every answer (besides A) is hard to cross of
If it makes you guys feel better the real LSAT is like 25% NA questions in LR. It's awful lmao.
How do you guys take notes during these lessons?
Or do you more just watch & listen?
have a separate notebook based on my own short comings, i write notes based on what I see I am lacking in. So if I tend to read fast and miss a few words, I tend to focus on words that I often overlook and make note of examples of those, etc.
I usually write down a quick bullet point for the summary and then copy the stem and stimulus. Once I answer the question independently, I record my answer and reasoning. Then, I write down the correct answer and just the logic explanation from the video and key takeaways that highlight my mistakes.
I have gotten one right. This is a freaking level 2, what the heck
WTF IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THIS AND SA???
I think the reason that it is confusing is because some SA and some NA answers will look the same. The thing is that NA questions can be different. So just keep your eyes peeled for when they do differ. In those cases NA correct answers will just be pretty weak and not really support the argument.
the way I think of it is that SA, I play the answer choice like before the conclusion, and it should help the conclusion statement, but for NA, the answer choice kinda like floats in the background bc it just helps us understand the whole argument
Can someone explain why he talks about the right answer choice as potentially "too strongly stated", why is that relevant to NA? Is it because typically very strongly stated claims are too strong to be necessary? I find it confusing because what does it matter if it's strong, if it's necessary it's necessary.
I think it's helpful to think as too strong as "Powerful" answer choices. If this were strengthening, we would need a powerful AC like "the long and thin wings of a bird work the same as aquatic animals for long distance". This is powerful and brings in outside facts. But we don't necessarily need that here. The converse is "provable" answer choices which is AC E. I reccomened looking at the "Loophole" Book by Ellen Cassidy on this Powerful v. Provable framework.
How can we be sure when an additional added premise is an analogy rather than just extra context intended to distract? I understand the logic present in providing data on birds in a stimulus on dinosaurs and "therefore that data must have some bearing on the dinosaurs."
But the fact that "most experts believe they lurked and quickly ambushed prey" is only relevant to the answer insomuch as it's negated by the author.
How can we quickly tell what info is "argument load-bearing" and what is "fluff" other than just intuition?
@nnkNewYork I've struggled figuring this out too! Did you ever figure it out? Anyone out there that can help??
I am glad you officially told me not to say the name. Been doing this when reading books for years. I also like to make them more crude to help me memorize. So this would be a pissypants dinosaur.
My only fear is when I become a lawyer my clients see my notes and wonder why I have them listed as Mr. Ragu and not his official name: Raghunandan Venkateshwaran Harikrishna Sharma. Come on Ragu.. give me a break here. :)
your comments are always so funny, I love them
plesiosauromorphs looks like a drunken made up word
Jay: I'm not even going to bother trying to prnounce this dinosaur
first try
"Plesiosauromorphs"