Y'all—

Some of us here are about to "graduate" to law school. Various members of our community (myself, @allison.gill.sanford , @alexandergreene93 ) have been discussing plans for a pre-law-school/0L study group.

The content will:

[Reading] basically be a copy/paste of @"Nilesh S"'s advice (Short and Happy Guides for Torts and Contracts, Glannon's Civ Pro Examples & Explanations).

[Meeting] Sessions to discuss concepts and practice issue spotting (using hypos gathered from various sources).

[Project] Practice exams exchanged/discussed by the group.

I think starting in mid May would be ideal. That would give us about 3 months to work on this before we're all likely to head into orientation week (ours is the very last week of August).

Interest? Ideas? Mostly we're looking to learn some black letter material and build our chops a bit before we head into the storm.

I took PT 50 last Sunday and got raw score of 62 but my actual score was 151. I did not feel it was particularly easier than other PTs. I used to get raw score of 55-56 and actual of 149-150, I am a bit confused. I am not sure if I improved or not? Is PT 50 really easy?

John Oliver never disappoints, enjoy!

I just started my LSAT course and noticed that the PSETs suggest using paper versions of the exercise questions. I've been using the videos, but it definitely does not mimic the right testing conditions. Also, I have tried searching the PSET questions in the Answer Bank, but I can't seem to find them. Does someone know where I can find paper versions of the questions?

why is this showing as locked for me when i have Ultimate+? PT0A S2 P1 there are a few others showing locked as well

How do you negate "not many"?

To me, you can't just dropped the "not". Here's my thought process:

"Not many" seems to be the same as "some not."

"Not many people like apple" = "Some people do not like apple."

The negation of "some people do not like apple" is "everyone likes apple," and this is very different from "many people like apple" (dropping the not in "not many").

So you can't just drop the "not" in front of "many" to negate "not many." Am I right?

Fellow 7Sagers, I have a dilemma on my hands and I'd like your advice on how best to resolve it. I'm especially interested in hearing the opinions of those of you who have first-hand knowledge of the services offered by editor David Busis, Spivey Consulting, or ideally, both. Here goes...

Context: I'm going to take the LSAT in September and if need be, re-take in December, as well. After I receive an LSAT score that I'm happy with, my goal is to then immediately turn around and send off my law school applications. Therefore, to accomplish all of this, I need to begin preparing all of my non-LSAT components of the application now. Procrastination = death.

Problem: I know that during the process of putting together all of these application materials, I'm going to need some expert-level assistance. But that's where I'm stuck. I'm not sure how much help I'll actually need and from whom it's best to get it. I'm especially worried about being blind to any "unknown uknowns", to use Rumsfeldian terminology.

Option 1 (@david.busis): As many of you already know, 7Sage works with the wonderful David Busis. I've bought his Intro. to PS course and seen him in action on a webinar. He's funny, direct, and full of writerly wisdom. I would love to buy his "Unlimited PS Edits" for $599. The only concern I have is that this leaves ALL of the other important stuff (e.g. scholarship, wait lists, mock interviews, etc.) off of the advisement table. Basically, I live and die by my numbers and personal statement and hope for the best with everything else.

Option 2 (Spivey Consulting): A second option is to buy a more comprehensive--and significantly more expensive--package with Spivey Consulting (out of the firms I got quotes from, theirs seems like the best value). I'm confident that Spivey et al. know their stuff when it comes to the entire application components and process. But it's A LOT of money for a person in my financial situation (just about $3,000 more than what Busis' PS edits would cost me). I'd prefer not to rack up credit card debt for this, but the investment might be worth it if it gets me into a better school and/or a better FINAID package. Or, maybe it's not necessary if I've got good numbers and Busis' great advice on crafting my PS. Who knows?

Option 3: Anything else you all might come up with. Have at it!

Well, there it is. There are no do-overs when it comes to submitting my law school apps later this year. And at 33 years-old, I cannot afford wait another year to do so anyway. I need to decide ASAP which service fits my needs/budget and get started right away. If any of you have first-hand experience (rather than mere speculation) that you can offer up on this topic, I would greatly appreciate it.

-Adam

Awesome course so far! Just a couple of questions:

1. I am a mature student. If my marks from my early school career were less than stellar, should I consider applying in this (mature student) discretionary category?

2. How does taking the LSAT during the December sitting compared with the October sitting affect law school applications?

Thanks so much.

So on my last PT I scored a 180, on both the simulated PT and the BR! It’s been kind of surreal since, but I hope to come back down any minute now! I know I still have a lot of work to do, and my PT average is, of course, much lower than 180; but I wanted to share for several reasons.

First, high fives!! And I already had a bottle of champagne to celebrate!

Secondly, and arguably more importantly; if I can do it, I firmly believe this test is conquerable by just about anyone. I graduated 63rd out of about 350 in my class from high school and finished my undergrad with a 3.64 GPA from The University of Southern Mississippi. I spent the last 8 years managing and consulting with small independent cafes, restaurants, and catering companies. Not to put down my experience, I owe a lot to the quality of my education and the lessons learned through work; but my point is that I’ve never been an exceptional student or done big, great things. I’m just kind of a regular guy. And if some random, regular dude can do it; then any random, regular dude/dudette can do it. You can do it. Whoever you are, whatever your background or situation; I genuinely believe you have every capacity to 180 this test. And I’m sharing because I hope my story can help you to believe it too.

I think this probably goes without saying, but this seems like a good time to thank the entire 7Sage team and community. The LSAT has been a long, painful process for me. I started studying about a year ago with a target score of 173. I scored a 163 in Oct. 2015 and then a 162 in Dec. 2015. After the Dec scores came back I was really bitter for a long time. I decided I could either quit altogether, temper my goals, or delay a year and redouble my efforts for my final take. I chose to quit altogether. Well, obviously that didn’t stick, and after a few months of pouting, I picked myself up. Having discovered 7Sage through the LG videos on youtube (isn’t that how we all find our way here?), I signed up having decided that if I was going to prepare for the LSAT right, this is where I needed to be. I abandoned everything I had learned to date and started over with the 7Sage curriculum. The 7Sage teaching methods are, of course, incredibly effective; and I began building my LSAT knowledge on a much more solid foundation. I also got involved and stayed involved on the forums. Before 7Sage, I felt very much alone in this. I’d go to my friends; but as we all know, people on the outside just can’t understand or empathize with what we’re going through, much less advise us. I’ve learned so much practical knowledge from you guys, but it’s the collective support of this group that really makes it a special place; and I know I wouldn’t have made it so far without this community.

Thanks, and I love you guys!

Meditate on this oddly satisfying GIF to put yourself in the right mindset for PT72.

And then get ready to group BR with Jimmy, myself, and the BR Crew this Saturday!

Saturday, May 7th at 8PM ET: PT72

Click here to join this conversation: https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/219480381

Please click the link and comment if you plan on participating.

You can also dial in to the BR call by using your phone.

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Note:

Really struggling with this question: https://classic.7sage.com/lesson/literature-departments-responsibility-na-question/?ss_completed_lesson=1785

I did eliminate A, B, C and D for reasons given by JY, but I cannot bring myself to see that E is a necessary assumption.

Wigmore doesn't give us any opinion on advertisements being "true literary works." He does not concede the point. He merely says, whatever, I don't know about ads.

Please share your thoughts.

In E we get that the literature department’s responsibility is not limited to teaching students how to analyze true literary works.

The negation test gets us to "lit dept. IS limited to teaching analysis of true literary works."

Why does Wigmore's argument suffer from that negation? He left open the possibility that, hey, maybe these ads ARE true literary works.

I get that in the case of ads NOT being true literary works, this is a necessary assumption because the dept. would need to teach things other than true literary works to include ads. But this does not have to be the case as we have no definite decision on whether ads are true literary works or not.

It seems that because Wigmore leaves open the possibility of ads being true lit works or not being true lit works that in the case of ads being true lit works then E has no impact and in the case of ads not being true lit works E is necessary.

---

EDIT: Ok, starting to click perhaps. If Wigmore argues from a position of expressing no opinion about ads' position as literary works, he had better leave open the possibility that his conclusion can be drawn from either situation. In that case, when Ads are not true literary works, he had better think that the department can still teach them. Such an assumption operating on the case when ads are true lit works doesn't do squat for the argument, but that is exactly how necessary assumptions work; the don't really help, but they can damage. Here we had to check for two possibilities because the choice specifically mentioned a variable element in the stimulus.

So, I guess my question to the 7sage community is this: is there any merit in doing questions 1-10, then skipping to questions 20-25 before attacking the middle questions, 11-19? I have taken multiple practice tests and seem to notice that towards the end of LR sections there are many "toss up" questions. Unfortunately, I find myself with barely enough time to answer these easy questions because questions 11-19 have eaten up a lot of my time. Is this an advisable LR strategy?? Would love some feedback. Hope everyone's studying is going well.

I was interested in the idea of going into "survival mode" when you've fasted for at least 12 hours, and trying to write a PT first thing in the morning, 6:15 am, with nothing in my system but some coffee and H2O.

Safe to say it wasn't wise...

Learned some valuable lessons about how to avoid sloppy mistakes and ALWAYS bubble in "C" when I don't know and have chosen to move on.

A big -7 RC (tied for worst ever aside from diagnostic) ruined my -9 total LR and -0 LG for a 165. But, the key is to keep moving forward. BR was only a 167 and I've since eliminated the reasoning that made me change a handful of correct answers to wrong ones.

Hi everyone.

I'm trying to figure out what the best way to drill is. I'm working my way through the course and I am thinking that I should be drilling as i go through it rather than waiting until the course is finished. I only got the starter class. Is it worth upgrading so that I have more practice material?. I have almost all of the pts, but I was under the impression that I should save as many as possible. My main question is that now that Cambridge isn't selling their drilling packets (at least that is what I've heard) is there something comparable?

Thanks for the help

Just took PT62 and think I got clobbered. Was curious if that's a particularly hard PT but couldn't find any PT ratings on 7Sage.

I know 7Sage has difficulty ratings/student comments for individual questions, but not sure if these exist for PTs.

Just curious if anyone has taken or heard reviews of any of the law school prep courses out there? If it is worth it & if those that have taken them found it to be helpful during 1L?

Also are any others considering taking one before starting school in August?

My target score for June is simply a 160-162, which I am fairly confident I can attain. I've taken nearly 10 PTs now and my scores are hovering between the 157-159 range, with one reaching 161. My schedule is as follows: PT usually on a Wednesday or Thursday and then BR until the next one, which is either on Sunday or the next following Wednesday or Thursday.

I just want to know if this is a solid schedule. I feel fairly confident in my abilities, and have seen my scores increase gradually, even after a couple lower scores (155, etc.). However, I do sometimes wonder if I could be doing something different. Actually not even IF I could be doing something different, but WHAT I could be doing.

What does everyone think about study time at this point? Obviously I know there's a big difference between quantity vs quality, I just really want to make the best use of these next two weeks knowing that I'll need to taper down during the last two weeks or so.

At this point, drilling timed sections/good BR between my PTs seems to be the most effective use of time..but I could be wrong here because 4 timed sections might as well be a PT. I know burnout is deadly (October '15 me could tell you all about it), but I want to squeeze out my last bit of progress in these next 2 weeks and leave it all out on the field.

What are the best strategies in these next 2 weeks to potentially get those last few points of improvement- Timed sections? Just PTs and super thorough BR? or Isolating any identifiable weak spots?

Thanks in advance for any advice or perspectives!

Now that we don't have any access to the lsat questions, for those of us who prepaid for a year's membership, will we be getting a partial refund due to this inconvenience? I extended my purchase based on this fact as we had no information about the pdf being taken down until April and I repurchased on March 15th not knowing that this would happen.

Proctors: 2 female proctors (1 of whom seemed very experienced). Followed the rules precisely, but were personable and never distracting.

Facilities: Clean, modern, and very well lit. Very new building amongst the school's fine arts facilities. Westmont has a beautiful manicured mediterranean campus which I found helped me relax and enjoy the day. Great space to walk around before the test. Bathrooms close--across the courtyard.

What kind of room: Spacious tiered classroom. Far larger than needed. A bit chilly--I kept my fleece jacket on for most of the test (or maybe it was just nerves that made it feel cold??)

How many in the room: I believe there were a total of 15 test takers. Certainly no more than 20.

Desks: Long, continuous bolted-down table style desks in each row. Tons of space--I had an entire row to myself and all the desk space I could have ever needed. Chairs were padded.

Left-handed accommodation: I am left-hand and due to the nature of the desks (see above) it was ideal.

Noise levels: I didn't experience any distracting sounds or noise levels, inside or outside the room. One test taker had a squeaky chair, but it was discovered before the exam began and the proctor allowed him to change seats (for the benefit of all).

Parking: Easy, free (no pass or permit needed), and close to the testing room. Not even a gatehouse to worry about.

Time elapsed from arrival to test: I didn't keep track, but it seemed about as efficient as one would expect. We did have to wait outdoors beforehand (no hallways), but the weather was beautiful as it almost always is in Santa Barbara, so this was not an issue.

Irregularities or mishaps: None.

Other comments: I believe the Westmont test center is probably capped at 15 or 20 test takers, mostly to accommodate Westmont students. Not being a Westmont student myself, though, I was able to get in. Just be sure to register early if you want this site, otherwise you're stuck with UCSB and we all know what happened there in December 2015!

Would you take the test here again? Absolutely! I cannot imagine a better test center.

Date of Exam: December 2015.

Trying to find a good law school.

So I was averaging -5 total in LR on the 50s and 60s but when I started taking some of the 70s (70,71,72) it went up to -9 total. And usually one of the sections will be a lot easier where I'll go -2, and then I'll bomb the other one with like a -7. I've tried reviewing these questions in depth and I noticed several things:

1) the LR stimuli are longer

2) answer choices are harder to comprehend,eliminate

3) NA questions are not as tight as they once were (check out the LR question in PT71 section 1 on predatory pricing and you'll see what I mean).

4) Lots of annoying principle/strengthen questions that are really time-consuming.

Perhaps it may take some time getting used to, but after taking PT72 LR#2 I had to vent since I found this section to be insanely difficult. And with the circular game, this PT is an absolute killer.

Has anyone noticed any other trends in the 70s LR? Or does anyone have any advice on how to tackle/approach these different questions? Thanks!!

I haven't had it easy to say the least. Without delving into my life story, I'll just sum it up to, my goal is law school. I'm trying really hard. I am 3 semesters shy of completing undergrad. I am retaking the LSAT this September. My first score was below 150. I anticipate my GPA being right at or just right below a 3.0. With that being said.. I actually have a few F's on my transcript, but I did retake those courses and replaced the F's. But I know they are still "there" although the GPA was recalculated, the failing grades are still in existence. I'm just wondering am I completely doomed with these F's on my transcript.. or what? I read (too much) on the internet, and other sites and forums, and some people say that the schools / LSAC rarely even take into account the personal statement or hardships, etc. (I'm doing pretty well considering circumstances)... *sigh* I do not want to give up, but if it's nearly not even possible then.. I would hate to have wasted time and money. Guess I'm feeling discouraged.. but don't encourage me just because. Honest, blunt opinions please!

Hello, I was going through JY's list of common flaws, and under the flaw "experiments to reach a general conclusion" he talks about how with experiments to reach a general conclusion you must include a control group, and a baseline. Could someone give me an example of a "baseline" ?

Thank you so much !!

I confirmed today what I had feared for the past couple of months - the test center I am registered for in June typically administers the exam in an auditorium with flip up desks. I visited the room today and the desks that flip up are TINY; to add insult to injury I was show the room that's occasionally used for overflow, and or accommodations, and it was perfect, with built-in desks and everything else you could ever want. The deadline for test center changes is within the next week, so I'm trying to decide what is the best thing to do, and I would appreciate any feedback others have on this issue.

The benefits for staying at my current test center are:

1. It's at the law school where I go to undergrad and is within walking distance from my house;

2. I usually study and do PTs in said law school's library, so I'm comfortable with the building in general;

3. Despite the TINY desks I can PT for the next month in that classroom and try to get used to keeping the answer sheet in my lap or something.

There are a few other test centers within an hour's drive, but they are all at similarly large state schools and based on what I've seen, they all have hit or miss desk situations. However, there is a small liberal-arts college a couple hours away with openings for this June's test date; I've only seen one review for the school, but it was positive. I'm also thinking that at a school of <2700 students that they probably don't even have a lecture hall that's designed for maximum occupancy. If I were to change the test location to that test center I would drive over on Sunday and stay the night in-town before Monday's test. I might also try to visit in late-May and take a PT in the actual room if it can be worked out logistically.

I'm going to take PT72 in the next few days, before the Group BR, and if the room is open I'm going to take it in the auditorium of my current test center. I've typically just printed my PTs on one-sided sheets, but given the desk-size constraint I would like to try to replicate the booklet layout. Obviously I want to print the PT double-sided, but what's the best way to bind it like the booklet?