.

Hey everyone,

I've done a couple of PT's so far and am trying to improve on the question types the test analytics have pointed out to prioritize. However, I'm not seeing much improvement. I'm doing problem sets of the types and reviewing the strategies behind each but to no avail I'm still not improving. Within a PT, specifically with LR sections, I may get -3 and on other I get -10, and sometimes even -10 on both. I truly don't know what to do and where I'm going wrong. I've even started writing out why each answer is right and others are wrong lately.

I truly would like to get to the point where LR isn't so varied for me. Any advice on how to get there, especially when getting to -3 and -4 is possible for me, would be greatly appreciated.

My LR scores for PT's 70- 77 have been for section 2/ section 3:

70 -3/-6

71 -13/-8

72 -4/-8

73 -7/-14

74 -8/-4

75 -6/ -10

76 -10/-5

77 -10/-10

Hi, Im about to take my second LSAT this august. I was wondering when I should have all my applications pretty much finished?

I've been grinding on RC for the longest time but I just can't ever seem to hit the supposed "Target Times" for each of the passages.

Sometimes I get 100% accuracy but I finish a passage in 9 minutes when the target time says 7 minutes. Or I finish an 8-question, really difficult science passage in 11 minutes but target time says 9 minutes.

Anyone else find that discouraging? Accuracy has gotten significantly higher but I just can't ever reach those target times listed out. It makes me wonder if I need to change my process up or something.

What do people think?

Reviving this excellent resource so we can add to it and keep it alive. Credit to @alyhobbs and the 3 years ago crew. Hope you all are killing it wherever you are.

Original thread: https://classic.7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/16979/help-with-flaw-type-examples

Will be adding to this but hey, don't make me do all the work... please post your examples up (especially for unaddressed categories) and I'll add them to the OP. It would be sweet if you copied the general format that follows too so I can just copy and paste. I'll credit you and you can be immortalized in the sage archives for all time.

Future 7sagers: please do continue to do this... copy what follows and make it your own. Please credit the original poster below and carry the flame.

@alyhobbs wrote:

Hey everyone, I am having a hard time with Flaw Questions. I know we are supposed to memorize the common argument flaws but that is where my struggle is. I am very much a visual/example type of learner. When going through the flaw types I realized it would really help me to understand and memorize them if I had examples. So I have been going through PTs and Drills that I have done trying to match them up with the flaw types and could use some help. Some I am able to easily match up to the type of flaw and others I am not. I have listed the different types below, some have specific question examples and then underneath I have a list of questions I need help matching. If anyone knows of any specific PT questions that match up with the other flaws please let me know so I can add them to my list. I hope this can also help others that struggle with flaws.

Flaw Types with Example Questions

1) Attacking the source of the argument

PT19S2Q14 *Thanks keets993

"rejects a claim by attacking the proponents of the claim rather than addressing the claim itself"

PT25S4Q04 *Thanks keets993

"assails legislation on the basis of the questionable character of supporters of the legislation"

PT39S4Q11 *Thanks keets993

"diverts attention from the content of the article by focusing on the writers' actions"

2) Uses terms unclearly/equivocation

PT25S04Q17

"The argument ambiguously uses the word "afford""

PT53S1Q12 *Thanks keets993

"ambiguity of risk"

PT59S2Q15 *canihazJD

"the meaning of a key term shifts illicitly during the course of the argument"

PT22S2Q24 *Thanks keets993

"draws a conclusion based on equivocal language"

3) Analogies that really aren’t analogous enough

"It relies on an analogy between two things that are insufficiently alike in the respects in which they would have to be alike for the conclusion to be supported"

4) Appealing to authority in an area outside their expertise

PTJ07S2Q17 @WickedLost @"Granger Danger"

"The argument relies on the testimony of experts whose expertise is not shown to be sufficiently broad to support their general claim"

PT20S4Q20 @"Granger Danger"

Parallel flaw with classic appeal fallacy.

5) Causation confusions

PT47S3Q23

“It takes for granted that if a correlation has been observed between two phenomena, they must be causally connected”

PT30S2Q25 *Thanks keets993

"because hormone levels are correlated with heart disease they influence heart disease"

PT47S1Q23 *Thanks keets993

"ignores the possibility that an increase in theta waves may not always be accompanied by a state of profound creativity"

PT18S4Q9 *Thanks keets993

"It mistakes a correlation between the type of brain damage described and Parkinson's disease for a causal relation between the two"

PT39S4Q20 *Thanks keets993

"overlooks the possibility that the same thing may causally contribute both to education and to good health"

PT20S1Q10 *Thanks akistotle

"ignores the possibility that drivers who drive recklessly have a preference for red cars"

PT20S4Q14 *Thanks akistotle

"It concludes that one thing was caused by another although the evidecnce given is consistent with the first thing's having caused the second"

PT30S2Q25 *Thanks akistotle

"Because hormone levels are correlated with heart disease they influence heart disease"

PT31S2Q9 *Thanks akistotle

"offers no evidence that the individuals queried would have responded differently had they been asked the same questions in years prior to the survey"

PT64S1Q5 *Thanks akistotle

"dogs' misbehavior is the cause of, rather than the result of, frequent discipline"

PT65S1Q8 *Thanks akistotle

"illicitly infers a cause from a correlation"

PT66S4Q25 *Thanks akistotle

"foods containing fiber also contain other substances that, when consumed, tend to prevent colon cancer"

PT89S4Q15 *canihazJD

“surmises from the fact that two phenomena are correlated that one causes the other”

6) Circular Reasoning

PT17S2Q2 *Thanks keets993 and akistotle

"draws a conclusion that simply restates a claim given in support of that conclusion"

PT17S3Q20 *Thanks keets993 and akistotle

"assumes what it sets out to conclude"

PT6S3Q8 *Thanks akistotle

"It assumes what it seeks to establish"

PT24S2Q8 *Thanks akistotle

"presupposes the truth of the conclusion it is attempting to establish"

PT49S2Q23 *Thanks akistotle

"The purported evidence that it cites in support of its conclusion presumes that the conclusion is true"

7) Confusing necessary and sufficient conditions

PT63 S1 Q25

“infers that something that is sufficient to provide a motive is necessary to provide a motive”

PT22S2Q25 *Thanks keets993

"confuses a sufficient condition with a required condition"

PT17S2Q11 *Thanks keets993 and akistotle

"It mistakenly interprets P to be claiming that a factor assures, rather than is necessary for, a legislator's effectiveness"

PT17S3Q9 *Thanks keets993

"does not establish that only a bird could have made the track"

PT18S4Q3 *Thanks keets993

"Grass seeds will not germinate well unless they are pressed firmly into the ground. The grass seeds sown in this yard were pressed firmly into the ground, so they will germinate well"

PT22S4Q21 *Thanks akistotle

"presupposing that if an action's having a certain property is necessary for its being a certain type of action, then having that property is sufficient for being that type of action"

PT23S2Q19 *Thanks akistotle

"taking the nonexistence of something as evidence that a necessary precondition for that thing also did not exist"

PT23S3Q17 *Thanks akistotle

"mistakes being sufficient to justify punishment for being required to justify it"

PT24S2Q23 *Thanks akistotle

"From the assertion that something is necessary to a moral order, the argument concludes that that thing is sufficient for an element of the moral order to be realized"

PT30S4Q14 *Thanks akistotle

"It mistakes something that is necessary for its conclusion to follow for something that ensures that the conclusion follows"

PTJ07S3Q25 *Thanks akistotle

"confuses a condition's being required for a given result to occur in one case with the condition's being sufficient for such a result to occur in a similar case"

PT64S1Q24 *Thanks akistotle

"confuses a claim that under certain conditions a certain action should be taken with a claim that the action need not be taken in the absence of those conditions"

PT67S2Q09 *Thanks akistotle

"treats a statement whose truth is required for the conclusion to be true as though it were a statement whose truth ensures that the conclusion is true"

PT68S3Q21 *Thanks akistotle

"takes for granted that the speech could not be inappropriate if it was not inflammatory"

PT89S4Q20 *canihazJD

"mistakes necessary conditions for sufficient condition"

8) False dichotomy

PT22S4Q09 *Thanks keets993

"treats two things, neither one of which can plausibly be seen as excluding the other, as though they were mutually exclusive"

PT38S1Q11 (Thanks to @"Slow is Fast" for finding it!) @"Burden.of.Floof"

"fails to consider that some students may be neither fascinated by nor completely indifferent"

PT39S4Q26 *Thanks keets993

"Since there is a storm moving in, the outside temperature cannot rise this afternoon. Therefore, it must fall."

PT59S3Q20 @cldennis94

9) Confusing probability for certainty

"It takes for granted that the economic incentive to construct colonies on the Moon will grow sufficiently to cause such a costly project to be undertaken."

10) Confusing "is" for "ought"

PT60S3Q16 *thanks @"cole.davis10"

"Takes for granted that preserving a currently endangered species in a habitat does not have higher priority than preserving species in that habitat that are not endangered"

11) Percentages v. quantity

"Far more pedestrians cross at corners than jaywalk"

12) Surveys and samplings to reach a general conclusion

PT 63S1Q3

“It relies on the opinions of a group unlikely to be representative of the group at issue in the conclusion”

PT51S1Q4

“fails to state the number of dermatologists surveyed, which leaves open the possibility that the sample of doctors is too small to be reliable”

PT31S2Q03 *Thanks keets993

"Those who are best able to provide answers to the question are patients, rather than physicians"

PT39S4Q21 *Thanks keets993

"that there may be few if any other plumbers working in Moore's town"

13) Hasty generalization

PT51S3Q6

“draws a generalization that is broader than is warranted by the findings cited”

PT30S2Q13 *Thanks samantha.ashley92

"Treats a claim about what is currently the case as if it were a claim about what has been the case for an extended period"

PT39S2Q2 *Thanks samantha.ashley92

“draws a conclusion about all cases of a certain kind on the basis of evidence that justifies such a conclusion only about some cases of that kind”

PT18S4Q25 *Thanks keets993

"He attempts to refute a general claim by reference to nonconforming cases, although the claim is consistent with the occurrence of such cases"

14) Experiments to reach a general conclusion

"playing the study's card game perfectly requires fairly low levels of perception and memory"

15) Your argument fails therefore the opposite of your conclusion must be true

PT47S1Q8

“takes for granted that the fact that a claim has not been demonstrated to be false establishes that it is true”

PT51S1Q15 *Thanks samantha.ashley92

“the argument, in its attempt to refute one theory of species classification, presupposes the truth of an opposing theory

16) Relative v. absolute

PT 53S1Q22 *Thanks keets993

"mistakes a merely relative property for one that is absolute"

PT 85S3Q24

"takes for granted that there are not significantly more households with a dog than ones with a cat"

17) Confusing one possible solution for the only solution

PT30S4Q6 *Thanks samantha.ashley92

"Confuses being an adequate solution with being a required solution"

PT59S2Q8 *canihazJD

"fails to consider alternative explanations of the decline in sales of ice cream"

18) Red herring

PT26S2Q11

"it appeals to the emotion of pity rather than addressing the issue raised"

PT18S4Q11 *Thanks keets993

"relies on an irrelevant reason for rejecting the civil libertarian's argument"

PT18S2Q04 *Thanks keets993

"He argues against a point that is not one that Marianna was making"

19) Tradition fallacy and novelty fallacy

“fails to show that a certain conclusion of the recent report is better justified than an opposing conclusion reached in older studies”

20) Confusing part v. whole

PT 47S3Q25 *Thanks keets993

"To put together this year's two All-Star Teams, the best players in the league were selected. Half of them were put on Team One, and half were put on Team Two. Since each player on the two teams was one of the best players in the league this year, it follows that the two All-Star Teams are the two best teams this year."

I also describe this is as 'falsey transfers attributes that can't be transferred' *Thanks keets993

PT17S3Q19 *Thanks keets993

"Of all the flowers grown in the university's botanical garden, the Oakland roses are the most beautiful. Since the university's botanical garden is the most beautiful . Since the university's botanical garden is the most beautiful garden in the region, the Oakland roses grown in the garden must be the most beautiful flowers grown in the entire region."

PT17S3Q16 *Thanks keets993

"assuming that because something is true each of the parts of a whole it is true of the whole itself"

PT62S2Q7 *Thanks LCMama2017

"This paragraph is long. So the sentences that comprise it are long."

PT87S3Q7 *canihazJD

"infers that a food will have a certain property simply because one of the foods ingredients has that property"

21) Beliefs v. facts

PT 80.S1.Q19 @cldennis94

"opposing higher taxes is not a factor contributing to good leadership."

Note: a Weaken question, but belief vs. facts is the flaw here in the argument.

PT 28.S1.Q19 @cldennis94

"infers that something is the case because it is believed to be the case."

22) Relies on people's opinions as fact

PT28S1Q09 *Thanks keets993

"a claim is inferred to be false merely because a majority of people believe it to be false"

Match the flaw

PT47S1Q23

“ignores the possibility that an increase in theta waves may not always be accompanied by a state of profound creativity”

PT51S1Q6

“It fails to take into account that what brings someone happiness at one moment may not bring that person happiness at another time”

PT51S1Q18

“overlooks the possibility that most people may have voted for small cities even though a large city received more votes than any other single city”

PT51S3Q4

“fails to consider that the total amount of money spent on education may be much greater than the total spent on sports”

PT51S3Q9

“fails to consider the possibility that the vehicle related fatality rates in other areas are also rising”

PT67S2Q9

"treats a statement whose truth is required for the conclusion to be true as though it were a statement whose truth ensures that the conclusion is true"

PT67S2Q21

"the argument fails to consider that bees might be present even in the absence of a particular condition that would ensure their presence"

More added by @samantha.ashley92

PT30S4Q8: "The argument presumes that no other evidence is relevant to the issue at hand"

Relative v. absolute? I have no idea.

PT30S4Q14: "It mistakes something that is necessary for its conclusion to follow for something that ensures that the conclusion follows"

23) Unrepresentative sample

PTM20S3Q18 *canihazJD

"making a generalization on the basis of a sample that is likely to be unrepresentative"

PT88S4Q19 *canihazJD

"draws a conclusion on the basis of a biased sample"

24) Sneaking something in (dont have a good name/category for this yet).

Hi friends!

I am looking for a study buddy to go over a PT together on the weekends. I scored a 170 on the June LSAT Flex and ideally would like to score a 175+ on the August test. I also do things differently where I like going over the test after blind reviewing and before scoring so that we can get the full mileage out of each test.

I am very flexible with time!

If interested, please pm me and we can maybe get some review sessions set up!

Hi there: I feel like I have been playing scenarios back and forth in my head too much, so I figured I would pose this question to the 7sage community: should I delay my application for a year?

I just took the LSAT for the first time in June and was very pleasantly surprised to receive a 169. While I had scored 168 several times leading up to the test, this score was above my PT average (between 165-166). It also represents a 22 point increase from my diagnostic of 147. A large part of my progress came from taking working on 7sage, so a huge shout out for that!

With a score that is teetering right on the edge of elite, I am now wondering whether it’s worth it to just go ahead and apply now, or put off applying for a year, spend a lot of time digging in, and try to get a score in the mid 170s. Here’s my context:

Because of my personal situation, I am really only able to choose between schools in Boston. This puts me in a tight spot of having to either chase down Harvard or settle with BU or BC. Don’t get me wrong, both BU and BC are excellent options and certainly have some notable benefits for me. But Harvard is, and has been, the dream.

Unfortunately, I have a fairly low GPA for Harvard (3.77) but the degree was in Chemistry. I also have a Masters’s from the University of Cambridge (with high marks) and two years of work experience in leadership positions in my field of interest.

I currently work full time and don’t think I could effectively balance studying really hard for the LSAT while also putting together a top-notch application that could go in early. This kind of leaves me with two options: 1) Take a chance and see whether I am one of the outliers and get into Harvard with a 169 or 2) Delay for a year, continue to bust my ass on the LSAT, and apply next year with (hopefully) a score that is closer to their median.

One BIG question for me in this is: Is Harvard a realistic option? If I end up delaying and get, say, a 173, will Harvard be viable, particularly given my lower GPA? Or will I sort of end up in the same spot that I was before, which is pretty great, but not quite enough?

I would love any thoughts, comments and advice!

I have an LSAT score from June 2016. I thought it would of expired by June 2021...anyone have any insight on this?

Hey guys, is the August test going to be 3 sections scored and 1 section experimental now? Are you practicing with the 4 sections test? How are you scoring it?

I have been studying consistently for about 5 hours a day, 5/6 days a week and I am seeing no improvement. I took a PT and my score was exactly the same (144) as my first diagnostic test. My goal is to score 164. I have a study schedule of 5 months and feel very discouraged that I am seeing no improvement 2 months in. I don't know what I should be doing differently in order to start seeing improvements in my score. Any help/advice welcomed :)

Hello fellow students,

I apologize for the vague nature of my question, but I am issuing this post in search of any possible tips, advice, etc.

I have been studying the LSAT (predominantly on 7sage) for the past 2-3 months. On my practice exams my average LG score is -1 and LR score is -4. These are noticeable improvements from when I first began this summer, and more importantly these scores satisfy my target/goal.

However, when it comes to RC it is very difficult to see steady improvement. My average score on a RC is -8 with scores ranging from -4 all the way to a disastrous -14. Despite seeing consistent improvement in other sections, my RC score is as much of a toss-up as it was on day 1.

I have watched the majority of the curriculum regarding RC questions and (to the best of my ability) attempt to utilize low resolution summaries, however I am still stuck.

I was wondering if anyone else had a similar struggle and has found a way to overcome such an issue through different study methods, tips during the reading of passages, etc.

Any input would be greatly appreciated :)

I keep getting these wrong and it's up and very dark red in my Analytics. Any help/anyone who knows where in the syllabus I can go to to cover it again is super appreciated!

hi, how are you simulating this test? are you guys taking 4 sections and scoring all 4 sections. And are you guys alternating the 4th section between LR, LG and RC?

I understand bi-conditionals, advanced logic, etc. I always get thrown off when I have to make multiple boards in In/Out Games. Can anyone give me some advice on when to make multiple boards and how many boards to make? Are there any words I should be looking out for?

[I am posting on behalf of 7Sage user. Please feel free to leave your comments below. Thank you for your help!]

Hi! I am working through LG and I'm having issues with "not both" "or" and biconditionals, particularly in the wording of game rules. Is there a list of common game rules that imply "not both"? A list of common game rules that imply the never apart biconditional?

Consistently getting -7/8 on LR sections. It feels stagnant at this point but I do want to improve! What should I do, any tips?

#help

can anyone explain why B is wrong?

Hello to anyone working at 7sage. Is there anything in the pipeline that will add an experimental section to the PTs?

Hello everyone! I have been looking for info sessions (looking to get a better feel of schools, see where I might want to ED, get content and questions answered for Why X essays), but I have so far not found any. If anyone has any leads on info sessions (online or in person), I would be eternally grateful if you could comment them below.

Even though I routinely go -0 on LG, I find games far more mentally demanding online as opposed to on paper. The constant micro-interruptions caused by the need to glance back and forth from screen to page (and then having to spend time locating/processing the text) slows me down and interrupts my train of thought. I often have to reread things I just read seconds before as a result. To put it another way, my cognitive load feels much higher when doing LG online. On the paper test you can draw a diagram literally one inch from the question and so any eye movement/tracking is minimal.

Does anyone else experience this? I don't know if I am particularly susceptible to this kind of thing, but I am looking for suggestions for how to minimize these effects since I know the online test isn't going away. Thoughts?

First and foremost, congratulations to everyone who took the test in June and survived it lol. I have a question about the LG on there, do you guys recall what game types were on there? Thanks in advance.

[I am posting on behalf of 7Sage user. Please feel free to leave your comments below. Thank you for your help!]

I've studied the past 2.5 months for an average of a bout 3-4 hours a day. I've finished David M. Killoran's Logic Games Bible, Mike Kim's LSAT trainer, and the Logical reasoning Loophole by Ellen Cassidy. I've gotten to a point where I feel like I can finish LG timed at -1 to -2, but I'd like to get that down to 0 with some practice. Obviously, I'd also like to improve my LR and RC as much as humanly possible. I haven't taken any fully timed LR sections, but I've been -2 to -4 untimed so far. All of this is a long winded way of asking, where do I start? I only have a month and a half until test day, so I can't imagine going over the basics again would be as beneficial as working on timing or the more difficult areas of each section. Advice would be appreciated.

I got my June LSAT Flex score back and it was 171. I'm not sure whether I should retake in October. This was my second take. I was pting in about 170, but in blind review I could get to about 175 (the best one was 177). I'm in a top10 liberal arts college with a gpa of 3.87. My softs are average or perhaps below average— I'm an international student and have been outside of the US for more than a year due to COVID 19, so I was only able to get an internship in my homeland which I know would lack credibility to most US law schools. Aiming at t8 law schools, and the best choice would by NYU or Columbia.

I'm aware that a better score is always preferable. The reasons holding me back from retaking are 1) I'm now taking a gap semester, but I will be back in school next semester. I'm not sure if I have time to prepare for another LSAT in October. 2) The October LSAT-Flex will have four sections, but I've never practiced a four-section-LSAT before. I don't know if that makes the test harder. 3) If I'm going to retake I probably won't be doing any internship this summer but instead would focus on LSAT and other application materials. Not sure if it's worth sacrificing my summer internship.

Do you guys have any thoughts on this? What are my chances with my current score? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Hi all - I'm taking the LSAT in August and it's my first time doing so. As such, I have a few logistics questions for those who know/have taken the FLEX recently.

Can you take the exam on a desktop? LSAC website says yes, but the Writing Sample Video (and presumably the actual exam) suggest that we're supposed to show our work environment, including floor, etc. Has anyone encountered this issue using a desktop?

Can you use scratch paper on RC/LR? Obviously we use them for LG, but has anyone been called out by a proctor for writing out, say, lawgic for a complicated LR question?

Any other tips for first-timers re: technology, proctoring, logistics? Hoping to keep stressors like these to a minimum on actual test day.

Thank you!!

Hello,

I am just about to begin studying for the LSAT. I have seen recommendations that I should take a practice LSAT before I begin studying as a baseline for what to work on. Should I use one of the practice tests on 7Sage's syllabus for this, or should I take the practice test from elsewhere, and if so where?

Thanks.