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I'd like to point out, also, that the VERY REALITY of this is really not true for probably 80% of folks. First of all, how did you land that "summer analyst position at an investment bank or consulting firm"? If you did, you probably came from a place of privilege -- and I'm speaking for myself, as I worked some pretty nice internships in college. Oftentimes, you had the connections to get the position or interview. At the very least, you had the background - class, education - that made you seem like a good fit for the position or gave you the past experience that you put on that resume application. You probably didn't come from a socioeconomic background that would make you stand out like a sore thumb among your investment bank/consulting firm colleagues. You live in a city where those companies exist, or you have the financial ability to relocate for the summer. You don't have to go home and help your family run their business/take care of your siblings while your parents work multiple jobs/etc.
Secondly, how did you save all that money? You only subtract 5k for living expenses and other stuff during "those summers." But what if your summer money includes supporting yourself the whole year round? It also assumes that you're not sending that money to your family, who needs it/using it for medical bills for yourself or your family/etc.
OP, I'm guessing you might be pretty young. At the very least, given that you use the words "usually" and act like these summer activities are a given, I'm guessing you don't have a lot of friends who come from outside your socioeconomic background. But OP, as someone who did many of the above activities you suggest, I'm telling you that summers like these/ours are really, really not the "usually" for many or most folks.
How much money do you think it takes to scrape by for LSAT studies? I am a first-gen college graduate that had limited savings from my year of teaching English abroad after graduation. When I returned to the states, I moved out to some country area 3.5 hours away from the nearest city and found the cheapest 250sqft studio i could (with 2 cats), stopped driving my car, switched to the bare minimum phone plan, and walked to a place that I could get internet when I needed... You can actually live off of $750/mo or less if you are willing to do what it takes. Luckily, my gf was understanding of what I was trying to do and I would sometimes take a train home on weekends to visit. Taking comforts away is a great motivator and also helped maintain focus on the goal.
I'm sure I could've begged a friend or family member for a spot in a basement/attic but getting away from everything was a better choice imo. I had the savings, but if I did not, there were several routes to obtain the very small loan that would be needed to accomplish this, whether it was a bank or just credit...
My sacrifices yielded me a score jump from 151 to 172 in 4 months TOTAL time that resulted in a full-ride to a top20 that I was able to negotiate into a full-ride + a $32,000/yr living stipend guaranteed, no GPA requirements. perhaps showing that level of commitment was... dare i say... INCREDIBLY BENEFICIAL to my outcome?!
PLEEEEASE convince me (or really, keep fooling yourself) about how having a gap in employment hurt my app... or that even if i didnt have savings and had to take a bank loan of $750 x 6 mo (it's $4,500 because i couldn't find a month to month) that I am somehow in a worse-off position....
i could barely afford the starter package on 7sage....
not to mention, i've already been getting multiple PM's from members that don't wanna get hammered by the lifelong 7sage members putting in their 3 hours/wk for advice about this kinda thing.... so this topic is incredibly relevant and is clearly something that needs to be talked about.
something that i haven't even mentioned yet either is the recent uptick in applicants to law school... the last few years has seen the lowest number of law students/applicants since the early 1980's following the recession. this year, as salaries continue to rise and job prospects are very high, we are seeing people flooding back towards the law profession. we had a HUGE increase of high-scoring applicants (https://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/2017-2018-cycle-data-as-of-6-27-18/) showing that there are people who scored high but did not apply in previous years and are returning to enter the market now. this has many schools overenrolled and sending out e-mails to students asking them to defer until next year (taking up spots), and causing a lot of great applicants to pull-out and reapply next year as cycle veterans polishing apps and avoiding rookie mistakes. the last couple years would have been the ideal time to get in the market and it's only gonna get harder from here! the time to act is now.
if you get bogged down in the employment gap (which doesn't mean crap) or continuing to live your current lifestyle (making whatever excuses you want, though some are legit ie children to feed) you MIGHT be hurting yourself in this current climate. there are a LOTTT of variables that need to be considered and weighted properly in terms of priority.... OP opening the conversation questioning people who are "on the fence" about whether they could take the dive and give everything to their future career in the law is about as relevant now as it will ever be... 2010-2013 might have been a good time period to keep your job while slowly working up that LSAT score and all the advice the lifelong 7sagers would be perfectly valid, but that is not the environment of today. you make your own bed...
@testfromaway said:
I don't think that anyone on this thread is making generalizations. I shared my experience because I am a first gen college graduate who comes from lower-middle class upbringing and through sacrifices I made during my undergrad years I was able to save money to enable myself to study full time.
A lot of people in this thread are acting as if taking time off work to study for the exam is fundamentally different from many other ways of preparing for this exam -- that it's somehow significantly more expensive than other methods of studying.
But really, it's not. An in-person LSAT prep course from Kaplan in my area costs almost $1500 dollars. That's a 7 week course, 28 hours total class time. Week for week and month for month, taking time off work and spending down my savings would actually be LESS EXPENSIVE than that Kaplan LSAT course, and a hell of a lot more effective at raising my score.
Fundamentally, taking time off of work and spending down savings/taking on debt is no different from the other methods of preparing for this exam. People spend thousands of dollars on courses from Kaplan/Powerscore/Ace/etc. People spend thousands of dollars on private tutoring (I've seen tutor rates as high as $200/h!). People spend tens of thousands of dollars on admissions consulting services. These are all successful companies that have thousands if not tens of thousands of paying customers each year.
Why do all these people pay so much money for these services? Because it's an investment in their future. A $900 7Sage course might enable you to raise your score and get a $10,000++ scholarship to a good school. It might enable you to get into T14 and significantly enhance your job prospects after graduation. Taking time off work to focus on the LSAT is exactly the same.
Hi, I'm not going to get involved in this debate, none of my business and I can see both sides for sure. But since the price amount you suggested we charge is exceptionally more than our highest package, I would ask that you not make up that number for the sake of an argument. You are correct, there is at least 1 firm that charges in that ballpark, but it isn't us. Many thanks, -Mike
@"Mike Spivey"
I've edited my posts to your request. I did try to confirm my numbers by visiting your website before posting, and could not find open price information so I assumed the $5k+ numbers I had seen thrown around on other forums put your firm in a similar strata to the other very expensive admissions consulting companies.
Sincere apologies. I wasn't trying to misrepresent the price of your services, rather to make a point that people spend a lot of money on these services and your excellent branding led me to assume your firm was the cream of the crop in admissions consulting, the "Rolls Royce" of law school admissions if you will.
someone should really close this thread...it's getting out of hand and is no longer productive.
No worries at all. I appreciate your kind words and agree that when I hear the 10k price tag for other firms and look at their backgrounds, I cringe. I really have tried not to make anything I have ever said on this board a plug for our business so I'll stop here. Again, thanks for the course correction!
-Mike
I have to disagree. I think people are arguing their point of view - some of which I don't agree with - but I don't think anyone is bashing anyone else or calling names or being exceptionally rude or getting personal. People feel strongly about OPs post and want to comment for the benefit of others. Its ok to disagree and have arguments and have all weigh in whether we are in agreement or not.
I was about to say that haha
Didn't read every single comment but I want to largely echo everyone else's comments of underestimating the weight of responsibilities and financial barriers while also adding in my own personal experience ....
I am in a position where if I wanted to study full time, due to my immigrant parents eating the American dream for breakfast, lunch, and dinner; and, largely, a huge stroke of luck, I could. Yet, I choose not to because I am someone who needs structure, and quite frankly, I like to work. More importantly, everyone has different goals. This is paramount to keep in mind when trying to compare two hypothetical candidates. For instance, while I have dedicated over a year studying (I vow not to take the LSAT until I feel 110% ready, and like I have reached my full potential) and have my heart set on one specific t14 school, I have no desire to enter big law. So, instead, since I know more or less which exact field I want to enter, I have been working, since undergrad, on crafting myself into a candidate who's cumulative application is proof of my desire to be a public servant. From internships, fellowships, and research positions at think tanks. It is not enough to simply state your desire to be an agent of change, specifically in the public sector, you have to walk the talk or else good luck getting a summer placement after 1L with no work experience. So,Yes, your LSAT score carries the most weight, but there are also other factors that influence what prospective law school students choose to do with their time, irregardless of feasibility.