Is there still office hours tonight?

Let's assume total COA will be the same (edit: negligibly different). I know the numbers from LST, but I was hoping I could gain some more anecdotal input or data from other resources.

My goal is big law, particularly NYC, but I'm also extremely open to working in LA or SF. I basically want to practice in any major city, except for those in Texas.

I think I will be fine on either campus, so which school would better help me reach my goal?

Id appreciate any input :)

The discussion forum will be temporarily unavailable today for maintenance.

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With a week left in my subscription, I wanted to say thank you to this awesome and supportive community, as well as a huge thank you to JY for creating and continually innovating this 7Sage program.

I know my stats aren't amazing, but after 2 years studying on and off for this exam and working full-time, I was able to go from a 139 diagnostic,144, 147, 152 and hopefully 154+ (Nov) on the real LSAT's, so I'll take that dub.

7Sage definitely has my recommendation, and the people on here are amazing. For what it's worth, i'll finish this post by saying what i'd change if I can do it all over again.

Dedicate studying for this exam full-time for 5 months

Burnout is real, but I also felt great momentum was the biggest factor in my score increasing. I have been studying inconsistently, but the time I took a 4 month hiatus from Jan through April then began to study for the Sept 18 LSAT has so far been my highest score. Point is 2 years studying for this exam was too damn long.

Sit for the September LSAT

That was my highest score, and as a teacher who gets the summer off, I thought getting those two months completely off was a huge difference and its also pretty early in the cycle. I would think this is also the case for students. Sure, things start ramping up in August and September, but its not so bad, right? (syllabus stuff? lol)

NOT BECOME SO FREAKIN OBSESSED, WORRY ABOUT STUDYING ONLY!

The current market for attorneys, medians, obsessing about stats, on and on. Sure,its reality and it is important. I'm not denying that. But it won't matter until you get the sore you want, and you have to bump all that noise until you're done busting your ass for this test.

I wish all the best for everyone on here. Your hard work will pay off. Happy Thanksgiving!

Cheers,

Carlos

LSAC notified me that one of my recommenders has submitted his LOR few days ago. Should I write that professor a thank you note right now or wait until I know the admission results? I kinda want to thank him now but don’t want to seem too kiss-assy either .. any advice?

So with the LSAT going digital soon, we are entering into a whole new era in a major way. Though I am personally glad to have done my LSAT on paper, this change is long overdue and will ultimately be beneficial for everyone. Inevitably though, it will impact the way we study, and as an LSAT tutor, this is something I've been thinking a lot about. Here's a few things I've come up with, and I'm really interested to know what everyone else thinks!

Opportunities:

Extra time: You won't actually have time added on to your section, but just as good. Added all up, bubbling takes about two minutes for most of us. Not having to bubble, we can bank those couple of minutes to put towards an extra question or two. Major win. Also, no anxiety over bubbling errors! (Also, no actual bubbling errors!)

PT Reports: So this one will take some time and programming, but it's the thing I'm most excited about. Taking your PT's on a screen offers an enormous return in data. I'm imaging a PTing program which accounts not just for your answer choices but for your time management. This will paint a much better picture of your test than just right/wrong answers. If you spend four minutes on a question, it doesn't matter if you get it right or wrong: It's an error. Computer PTing can generate reports with this kind of consideration, and once it's available it's going to be an enormously powerful tool for empirical analysis.

Instant Scoring: No more agonizing wait for scores. Future LSAT testers will correctly look at this as inhumane. The concept of "grey day" will melt into obscurity, an odd terminology no one will understand the meaning of when pulling up old threads. Also, you'll know right away if you need to get back to studying for a retake.

No more "Test Dates": I think this won't be happening until later, but eventually the LSAT will be administered more like the GRE where you just sign up to test pretty much whenever you want. This will make discussions of "aim for your score not your test date" somewhat different, though people will still set personal deadlines that won't be realistic for target scores. Hopefully the added flexibility will be beneficial for this. Also, I think certain test day anxieties will be alleviated. "Test Day" just won't be quite as big an event.

Gamification Potential: This will take some development, but I can't help but think a digital LSAT will be highly gamifiable. I'm imaging PT/drilling software with different options for developing specific skills. Working on time management? Maybe there's a feature for that where the screen changes from white to green to yellow to red as you spend more and more time on a question. Working on more effective POE strategies? Maybe a PT plug-in can show your odds improving from 20% to 25% to 33% to 50% as you eliminate AC's; then as a part of the report we can track your outcomes over time just for 50/50 situations. I could sit here and come up with these all day, but y'all get the idea and Alan would probably prefer I stop!

Speaking of gamification, how about Sage PTs via Twitch?: This could be a cool feature. Watch a Sage take the latest PT live! This could be really cool if anyone has the courage to do it!

Obstacles:

Instant Scoring: This one is maybe a double edged sword. While the instant score return will save a lot of agonizing, it will also rush the decision to cancel or not. This will make for a higher pressure decision without the benefit of reflection and advising.

Transitioning: This will be a short lived con for those of us that came up on paper, but we'll have to reimagine certain procedural things about how we take the test, and this will take time and energy that we'd prefer to invest elsewhere.

New testing issues: Software crashes, screen malfunctions: Hopefully tech issues won't affect many of us, but certain problems feel inevitable, and I'm not sure what kind of solutions are going to be available.

No paper: Okay, this one is a bit observational, but I think it's important. I like being able to feel the test and to mark it and interact with it directly. I think you get scratch paper which is good, but there's something about working via screen that feels detached to me, and I know this will be a factor for many others as well.

No pencils: Again, not all that insightful, but a sad passing for many old school testers. While the pencil isn't really that important, I had enormous fun trying out tons of pencils to find the perfect one (Staedtler Noricas, obviously). The pencil thread will sink into oblivion and only maybe resurface with a chuckle as a relic of the past when things were quaint and simple.

Well, these are a few of the things I've been thinking about. What do you guys think? What have I missed? Overall, I think the opportunities far outweigh the obstacles.

Were you disappointed when you saw your score? Do students tend to over-predict or under-predict there scores walking out of the test?

To be fair most people on this forum who have written multiple times probably did so because they did poorly the first time so we might have a bit of a confirmation bias here. But is there any consensus that students generally overestimate / underestimate there score on average?

There has been some discussion lately about the difficulty of PT 83,84 and 85. I want address an aspect of these discussions I have yet to see fully articulated as of late. I am by no means the first person to come to this conclusion, but I hope you find my take both helpful and reassuring. This process is what has worked and continues to work for me personally, I mean this advice as respectfully as I can.

Several people have written about the difficulty/subtly of these newer exams. Yet, almost by definition, the exams should not truly be that different from the previous exam which shouldn’t be that different from the previous exam before that and so on, because if they were markedly different, the LSAT would no longer be standardized in a way that any meaningful data could be gleaned from someone taking the exam. The exams would become “non-standardized” at that point. Imagine the shock for instance, if you sat down for an LSAT PT marked “PT 95” after all the hours of drilling valid argument types and the common flaws only to find the entire exam was a manual on how to disassemble and troubleshoot the transmission of a 2006 Honda Civic. Then the entire process of taking this standardized exam would be defeated.

Obviously, no one is claiming that the exams are now that different from previous exams, but nonetheless: this raises a question, if the newer exams are different, what are the primary differences? The answer to this question is usually something like: the reasoning patterns on LR are more subtle or “the answer choices are wrong because of the inclusion of a single word,” or “the flaws aren’t really as cookie-cutter as they were on older exams.” Obviously, there are more tangible differences between the PTs in the 80s and the PTS in the 40s: the inclusion of rule substitution questions on LG and the comparative passages on RC for instance, but these differences are by no means “new.” In fact, some of them have been around nearly a decade.

So, the general consensus seems to be that the newest exams are more “subtle” than exams 10-15 years ago. Which brings me to my central point, I am in no way claiming that the exams have remained completely unchanged, but I do claim that the changes have been subtle enough that if we have been doing pretests in order, we shouldn’t have noticed a big change from PT to PT and we should have in our approach inbuilt fixes to whatever has arisen.

So what should we do to minimize the struggle the newer material poses? After you’ve gotten through the CC and you are comfortable with the material: do the pretests with thorough blind review in order. Either from PT 37-present day with thorough review of each PT, or if you are like me and you need a few more PTs to drill from to get comfortable with the material then from 49-present day with thorough review. This helps us get a great foundation, hone our test day skills (pacing etc) and also mitigate any newer elements of subtly or surprise that might come our way.

So, ideally, the process would go something like this:

-You leave the CC having what you believe is a decent understanding of the material

-First PT 37: score 151

-Revisit the CC while thoroughly doing BR, because you thought you knew how to do necessary assumption questions but on the PT you missed 3.

-You watch the videos, you interact with the community, you walk away from that exam knowing how to explain every question, maybe not as fully as you one day will be able to, but nonetheless, you can explain it in a way where your strategies are being used.

-You take PT 38 rinse and repeat, maybe get in on a study group to answer questions and ask questions. You do this through all the PTs. This takes time, but can lend itself to the student getting used to the subtle difference between exams.

What I argue emerges here is a process in which by the time we go through the 60s, past the 70s and into the 80s in order, the “subtly” of the newer exams should be something we are acclimated to. If we have done this process correctly.

In summation, I have met a ton of elite high scorers in my journey. From them telling me their stories I have come to view the process these used in two rough categories: those that got a super high score by doing a process similar to this, if not more in-depth and those who come into the LSAT with amazing LSAT skills already in place who could start with PT 70 and do this process, but greatly abridged (either due to some combination of previous training in logic or other skills.) Basically, every high scorer I have met has done some iteration of this process, the only question is how much did they do.

On test day there are going to be people who get elite scores, how do they do it if the exams have this new subtly to them? They simply have become acclimated to the features of the exam that might be new or slightly different and assimilated this newer subtly into their already built approach of general skills honed through taking PTs and thorough BR. A wise person once told me that we have enough PTs available to us that the LSAT has in a very real way already “showed us their hand.” So the process can be done: go out there and do every post CC PT if you have to in order with super thorough review building skills you can carry forward to the next PT, you’ve got this.

TL;DR: if the newer tests have a unique subtly to them, we can mitigate this difficulty by doing pretests in order. That way we build our core skills along the way and also try to become acclimated to the subtly the newer material poses.

David

JY said it wasn't a relevant game, but the video was made years ago. Curious to see if anything has changed.

Hi Everyone,

I recently made a post about the severe anxiety I encountered during this previous administration and wanted to thank everyone for their wonderful advice. I plan on addressing this problem with my doctor and hopefully he will be able to point me in the right direction.

Anyways for the upcoming January LSAT, what should my schedule look like until then? I went in to November scoring where I wanted to be although I suppose it wouldn't hurt to earn a few more points in RC. With that one exception I figure I have the skills and knowledge necessary to hit my target. So my questions are:

When should I hit the books and start studying again?

What should my study regime roughly look like?

Any other pieces of wisdom?

If someone is able to help with even one of these questions it would be greatly appreciated!!!!

Linked is my previous post for reference

https://classic.7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/18534/how-to-overcome-lsat-panic-anxiety

I just finished the LR section of the CC. Wondering if it will be helpful to BR one section of LR a week while I continue on learning the curriculum for LG. Any thoughts?

I freaked out during the September test, specifically during RC where i got -13 and scored around 10 points below my PT average. I was worried I would never be able to do this test. I stayed clam this time and answered every single question to the best of my ability, and now i feel like this huge weight has been lifted off my back. I may have missed a few here and there, but i am confident there were no disasters. It's been a grueling 6 months of studying for this test, I'm so happy i got through and am actually looking forward to seeing my score.

I want to encourage anyone who did badly yesterday to not give up. You are fully able to get this test. Yesterday, at the end of the writing sample, someone next to me put down her pencil and I could see the tears starting to form around her eyes, it obviously didn't go well and i remember exactly what that felt like. The writing sample feels like half an hour of torture, and all you want to do is open up your test book and try again, or leave, anything but write about soybeans or telescopes. I wanted to encourage her, because i was there before, and my experience goes to show that there is light at the end of the tunnel, and i firmly believe that's true for anyone who puts the work in.

I had so many bad tests and discouraging moments studying for LG and then RC, feeling like i couldn't even write down the rules of a game or understand the main point of an easy passage, but i just kept studying and doing blind reviews over and over again, and things finally started to click. I did about 95% of the available questions, leaving only a few preptests between 1-7 untouched, that's what it took for me to have a good day. Thanks you to everyone in this community for sharing there difficult moments, they helped me find the motivation when i felt there wasn't much left. For everyone that knows yesterday wasn't there last LSAT, keep putting the work in, you got this.

-removed

I was supposed to take the November administration on Saturday at University of San Francisco, but due to half the state being on fire, the testing center cancelled the test. Wondering if anyone knows what kind of test will be administered as the make up test, how to best prep for it? I've heard past undisclosed Feb tests are usually given as make up tests, but am wondering if it will be a 70's test from 2015 or an 80's one from last year?

So I have been reading the discussion on the exam and now I'm getting nervous about my score. The LGs were unfortunate due to the the mining question as I usually shoot to get -0 for LG. Due to one of the substitution questions and the mining question I probably missed a few. Also I remember struggling a little on the last LG question too. I did terrible on the experimental LG, so I almost cried when I found out that's not being scored. To me the RC didn't seem too bad, but then again my brain is fried and I can't remember much. I also feel like since June 2017 they have changed the language of the LR sections to use softer answers, where sometimes two answers can work but we have to pick the best one that for ex: "weakens the most." So I don't know how to feel about LR, and this seems like this will be the direction of future exams. Many people are saying it was difficult and now I'm scared that I shouldn't feel confident in my efforts, and maybe I should be studying to retake. So please leave your feedback on the overall difficulty of the exam. Was it way more difficult than the other exam this year?

Before I took my test at Western CO, I looked for test center reviews and couldn't find one. Hoping this will ease your mind if you're considering testing here.

First, I had a WONDERFUL testing experience at Western CO. I had 5 other people testing with me and I believe there were 2 other students testing with accommodations in another room.

Proctors: We had 1 proctor in the testing room and 1 outside of the room who watched coats/bags/etc that were left outside. The in-room proctor left the room 1 time to switch with the outside proctor I'm assuming to use the bathroom or something. The in-room proctor kept and called time appropriately. He was quiet for the duration of the exam. I also believe they helped a girl re-print her admission ticket. They were SUPER nice.

Facilities: The test was in Kelley Hall. The bathroom was right across from the testing room. During break and before the exam, we were able to walk the long hallway of the building or wait on one of the many couches in the building.

What kind of room: It was in a room with 4 levels of long tables. The chairs were comfortable. A clock and whiteboard were at the front of the room. The temperature of the room was comfortable. I had on a tank top and flannel shirt with yoga pants and boots. I also had a scarf and jacket just in case, but they were unnecessary.

How many in the room: 6 test takers total. There was tons of space and it was very quiet.

Desks: Long tables. There was one other girl sitting at my table ~15 seats away. I had ample room for my 12 pencils...and my tissues, sharpener, etc.

Left-handed accommodation: The long tables are definitely lefty friendly.

Noise levels: Quiet and awesome. The proctor only spoke to deliver time warnings and instructions.

Parking: I walked (~10 min) from my hotel (Holiday Inn Express), but I saw others had parked in the free lot at the entrance of campus. Campus is pretty small...there is parking everyone or you can easily walk from nearby hotels.

Time elapsed from arrival to test: I arrived just before 8 am. They started checking people in just before 8:30. I think we started section 1 around 8:50?

Irregularities or mishaps: None to report. The test administration went off seamlessly!

Other comments: This was a GREAT place to take the test. This was the closest place for me to take it and I'm super glad I chose here vs somewhere bigger. The atmosphere was laid back and everyone was respectful and friendly.

Would you take the test here again? YES! Fingers crossed I won't have to though...

Date of Exam: November 17, 2018

This is the testing center website just FYI: https://www.western.edu/student-affairs/testing-services

I just took the LSAT at CUNY Law. It was...ok. Comfortable chairs and tables, but a lot of construction outside. A siren went off in the construction site next door about every 5-10 minutes. Also, the elevated 7 train is right there, so you hear that too. And, it's right in the middle of a heavy foot traffic zone so you can hear people talking outside, dogs barking, etc. It would be better if the rooms were soundproof, like they are at Fordham Law, where I took the July test and didn't hear a live concert that was right outside the door at Lincoln Center. I would do Fordham again, but they're not offered as a testing center in January. Has anybody ever taken it at Queens College? If so, how was it? I obviously wouldn't give a full recommendation for CUNY Law (even though it has rave reviews on various sites, but perhaps this was old when Long Island City wasn't one big construction site). Thanks for any feedback! (PS, I also took it at Wagner College at Staten Island and could give feedback on that).

Starting back in January 2017 I began 7sage with a 144 diagnostic. The thousands of hours studying lead up to today, November 17th, 2018. The journey has been a roller coaster of emotions to say the least, but the feeling of walking into test day confident as ever made EVERYTHING worth it. 7sage continues to be the best course out there and the community is even better. Thanks to everyone in the webinars, to those who indirectly helped me by leaving comments/posts, to those who that gave me a good laugh after being stumped by a question, and, most of all, J.Y. Ping. I never thought this day would come so fast, but almost two years later and here it is!! I think I hit somewhere in the mid 160's today and I couldn't be happier.

Time to get those applications ready. I wish my very best for those of you studying, cheers!

Hi Everyone,

I'm going to keep it as short as I can. Today was my 3rd attempt at this test and it did not go well. In hindsight I didn't think the test was so hard but in the moment it might have well been my diagnostic. I've been preparing for this take since under-performing in June and I believe I did everything right. I started with the 7sage curriculum, moved onto timed/untimed sections, and finally to 1-2 PT's a week with thorough blind review. Following these steps I saw massive improvement and was scoring where I wanted to be a month out from the exam. The PT's I took were all 5 section strictly timed exams with a 15 min break in between at the exact testing location at 8:00 during this time. I was feeling so confident and accomplished as I was up 20 points from my diagnostic just months before.

Anyways I've never had a problem with anxiety before and stress wise I was doing really well up until the exam. The morning of I was feeling a little stress but I meditated and I was feeling fine up until the exams began to get passed out. As soon as I opened my test a wave of sickness just crashed over me and it was like I had never seen an LSAT before. My first section was LG and I was scoring an average of -1.5 on PT's whereas now I couldn't even figure out how to do a simple sequencing game. I had a giant knot in my stomach and a throbbing pain in my head and ended up forgetting everything. I wasn't going through the motions I had mastered so well during my practice and in turn everything else just suffered.

Is this anxiety? Panic? What should I do? Whatever it was I was not prepared for it and I'm looking for advice on what I should do to counter this. I'm taking this test once more in January since I'm required to attend law school this upcoming fall. Please any advice is appreciated

Anyone have any feedback on testing centers in Colorado in the Denver/Boulder area? Has anyone taken the exam at UC Boulder and could provide feedback on their experience?

This was my 3rd time sitting for the LSAT, and I’ve never seen such a terribly botched proctor job before. Started with the administrative parts when we were filling out our personal info in the booklets and answer sheet... they had no clue about where the information was and took our admissions tickets from us at the door and argued with me at first when I said we needed them still.

Then on the first section they called 5 minute warning at 25 minutes. I knew they were wrong but this completely derailed my focus and I’m certain cost me points in the section. After they called time I informed them that they were 5 minutes premature and she apologized and started making excuses AFTER she told us to keep going.. probably continued talking and babbling for at least a minute afterwards meaning we really only had 4 minutes of adequate testing conditions out of the last 5.

They also whispered extremely loudly among one another through the whole test. I was sitting in the back of the room and it was just so distracting.

I know I have a time period to write a complaint to LSAC, but what more should I expect or maybe even ask for reasonably? If all I’m going to get is a “sorry they sucked, you can cancel your score if you want”, then it almost seems not worth it to me.

Appreciate the advice in advance.

So I’ve tried blueprint’s in class course, and found that while it was great for helping me get into the 160’s, I couldn’t get any further. I also tried an online course with LSATMax, and didn’t improve much. I have been reading the powescore bibles and feel that I am grasping the concepts, but am not performing as well as I would like to. Both courses didn’t help me much in reading comp and just reading explanations from Manhattan prep and powerscore don’t seem to be doing it

I’m taking the test in January and do not want to take again. I just graduated from college and have spent a lot of my own money, and it honestly hasn’t helped. What should I do? I’ve watched your logic game videos and love them, so that’s why I’m asking you for advice

Hello all! I hope everyone is having a great weekend so far and managed to take some time away from studying because I for one am still recovering from my first Friday night R&R in months. I am curious as to how you all approach the 7Sage Core Curriculum? Personally I am a rather slow and methodical learner that is just so fixated on excessive note taking and the details that I basically move through the 7Sage course at a abysmally slow glacial speed. Honestly after assessing how I was studying I felt that this slow speed that I move at and basically writing down everything that JY says and trying to memorize it as the word of a venerable God Emperor I seem to almost forget some of the lessons learned previously. I watch every video and basically comb through the comments in the videos to pick out some worthwhile tips but, as I said before, I fear that I may not be grasping the bigger and more important concepts forsaking it for the details of an individual question instead.

I have began to set aside days where I plan to only review and compile important information whether it be concepts, rules, or important takeaways from certain problems onto a Word Document so that I may more effectively review past lessons in a more concise manner as well as drilling certain problematic problem sets that I just failed miserably in while balancing it out with days where I devote all my time to moving forward with the video lessons.

Just some information I am studying for the LSAT full time and I plan to take it sometime in 2019 so that I can apply the upcoming cycle. I initially had planned to take it in January but due to an injury I had to take a significant amount of time off to basically heal and return to 100%.

I was wondering if anyone could be so kind as to give me some tips or tricks as to what worked for you because I would love to learn how to more effectively study and manage my time so that I do not get so bogged down that I end up barely ready for test day. Thank you all so much!

**Seeing the results of the poll, I get that most people are recommending me to keep my score. Could someone explain why keeping the score is better than canceling for the second time? :o

But thank you all for participating in the poll! :')

Hi folks,

I'm basically in a mid-life crisis, panic zone here. Your help would be so greatly appreciated...

So, I just took the Nov 2018 LSAT. I think I did ok on the LR and RC but I really messed up on one of the games. The other three I had no problem with. But for one specific game about months (March-Nov), I could not understand what the first rule was saying. I was struggling to understand for about 8 minutes and ran out of time. Ultimately, I had to guess on four questions (I couldn't even make an educated guess sadly).

This is my fourth time taking the test. I canceled my last test which was on Sept so I only have two scores. My second score was a 165. Considering that I missed all four of those questions plus -6 on LRs and -6 or -7 on the RC, I would probably receive around a 165 or even lower on this test.

Do you think I should cancel this test (meaning this would be my SECOND CANCELATION which law schools hate) or do you think I should take the chance of just seeing how this score turns out? (even if that means getting a score that is below a 165).

When I arrived at the testing center this morning, the proctors were MIA. 9AM rolls around and there are still no proctors. The representative of the university we were testing at called LSAC and they told her that the test would be officially postponed due to lack of proctors, and with that news, we all left the testing center. Has this happened to any of you before? If so, what options did LSAC give you to correct for the situation?