Hello! I didn't see any prior discussions on this question, and it's confusing me a bit so I wanted to get some outside opinions!

https://classic.7sage.com/lsat_explanations/lsat-29-section-4-question-17/

We have an underlying principle/SA question which means that our answer needs to fill the logic gap pretty much completely.

Background info says that confidence of a testimony has little correlation with the accuracy of said testimony.

Support says that factors can alter the confidence of a testimony without changing its accuracy.

Conclusion says that police officers shouldn't allow situations where witnesses giving testimony can hear other witnesses giving testimonies.

The designated correct answer for gives us the principle that the confidence in one's testimony is affected by seeing other testimonies. To me, this leaped out as a wrong answer choice because the passage seems to suggest that confidence in one's testimony doesn't really matter, so there would be no incentive to prevent it.

D, on the other hand, seemed to fill the gap using unusual, but plausibly correct logic. If the police, for some reason, cared about confidence more than accuracy, factors that change confidence would want to be controlled. I don't know why Police would want to know about confidence rather than accuracy, but it's not our job as test takers to question the likelihood of a gap-closer to occur in the real world; we want to know if that gap closer, taken as it is, would bridge the support with the conclusion.

D does it in an ugly fashion, but I don't think A does it at all. Knowing that viewing other testimonies can alter confidence doesn't give us any logical reason for police officers wanting to prevent it. We can't bridge the gap between evidence and officers stopping testimony exposure without understanding the criterion based on which an officer would want to prevent testimony exposure. Even if you make the least extreme assumption and consider that police would want to stop something that alters the accuracy of a testimony, (since accuracy of evidence is important to court cases) answer A becomes more flawed in that it gives the support an attribute that the police wouldn't care about, or use in a decision for policy.

Any help is appreciated :) Thanks guys!

Disclaimer: This is fairly long. However, its length may be good practice for you as an RC passage. I can write practice questions if you would like.

Hi all, I first want to say thanks to 7sage for the awesome prep course. I hadn't really used the Discussion section of 7sage until just recently but I wish I had sooner as it seems to be a great community with a lot of knowledge. I sat June 2017 and am looking to apply this cycle. My goal is to attend a T14 school, particularly one of the higher-ranked T14 schools. I have a few questions regarding retaking the LSAT, softs, and work experience.

About me: 4.0 GPA, 170 LSAT, mechanical engineering major at a top 10 engineering school, looking to probably go into intellectual property law.

As for retaking the LSAT, I figure I have good enough numbers to get into a majority of the T14 school as is, but I think an extra couple points could go a long way for chances at HYS CCN, as well as grant money everywhere. I only started to score in the 170s during the last two weeks of prep leading up to the test and had a slow upward trend all the way which I felt I could have continued and scored higher had the test been a month later. All said and done, I hit my target score that I set when I started studying seven months ago and am thrilled with it, but I do think that I can do a little better with more work. I am thinking about sitting again in September. If I am not consistently scoring above 170 on PTs leading up to September I will withdraw, and if I do not feel like I scored above 170 on the test I will cancel my score (don't want to risk getting a lower score). My question is: do schools even see that you have taken a test and cancelled? Or that you have registered and withdrawn? If so, does this hurt your application in any way? How badly would taking and getting a lower (say 168, 169) or same score hurt my application?

My softs: internships with three different companies: one of the "Big Three" auto manufacturers (2 summers), a well-known engine and machinery manufacturer (2 semesters), and a smaller engineering company (1 summer); Formula SAE team member; study abroad semester; tutor; course grader; scholarship D-1 student-athlete (2 years, at previous school before transferring to my current school)

The majority of my softs are internships, and I have heard different things as to how internships are viewed as work experience by law schools. I know a lot of schools and law firms want to see a good amount of full-time work experience, especially in industry for IP law. Do you think this combination of internships (totaling 9 months of full-time and 10 months of part-time engineering work) would be seen as a significant amount of "work experience," however that is defined by law schools, rather than merely a set of internships? Also, I graduate in December and will then be working full-time for around 7-8 months at either the auto manufacturer I have interned at or an engineering consulting firm before starting law school. I would just really rather not put off law school a whole year just to build up more work experience if it is not necessary.

If you are still reading this, you the real MVP. Thank you for any help, insight, suggestions, funny comments, whatever.

I sat for the June LSAT and scored very low. I'm not sure where to even begin, I do not know what the best strategy is anymore to approaching this exam. I don't want to give up but in need of serious help because all of what I'm doing is obviously not working.

Help?

Suggestions please?

Hey everyone,

So question 24 in section 2 of Prep Test 61.

This question I've been trying to grapple with for 3 days (seriously). I understand how conditionals work, but this question just doesn't work for me no matter how many times I do it, or listen to J.Y's explanation. I'm getting caught up on two things:

Here is the question:

Stimulus: It is unlikely that someone would see history as the working out of moral themes unless he or she held clear and unambiguous moral beliefs. However, one's inclination to morally judge human behavior decreases as one's knowledge of history increases. Consequently, the more history a person knows, the less likely that person is to view history as the working out of moral themes.

Stem: The conclusion of the argument is properly drawn if which one of the following is assumed?

So the right answer is:

B) The less inclined one is to morally judge human behavior, the less likely it is that one holds clear and unambiguous moral beliefs.

I actually got the right answer, but only through process of eliminating the wrong answers. I couldn't get full connection in this argument to get the answer as the missing sufficient assumption and it is driving me full out mad :)

The first thing that bothers me about this argument is the "unlikely" at the beginning, which I'm not sure exactly what to do with. The second thing is that the second premise [one's inclination to morally judge human behavior decreases as one's knowledge of history increases] does not ring to me as a conditional if/then type of sentence. I see that they are connected, but decreasing/increasing relationships aren't something I see fitting well into a conditional sentence sequence.

Secondly, even if I grant that this is a conditional statement, this is the logic drawing I end up with:

[P1] See history as working out of moral themes (SHWMT) ---> holds clear and unambiguous beliefs (HCUMB)

[P2] Morally judge human behavior decreases (MJHBd) ---> Knowledge of history increases (KHi)

[Conclusion] The more history a person knows (KHi) --> the less likely they are to view history as the working out of moral themes (/SHWMT)

So if I was to write this out in pure logic:

SHWMT --> HCUMB

MJHBd --> KHi

KHi --> /SHWMT

So even if I grant the weird statements around increasing/decreasing I still can't get from this to the missing premise:

The less inclined one is to morally judge human behavior (MJHBd) --> the less likely it is that one holds clear and unambiguous moral beliefs (/HCUMB)

MJHBd --> /HCUMB

I just can't wrap my head around this one as logically connecting in a sequence chain. Am I just having a brain stall?

Any thoughts @Sami ? :)

https://classic.7sage.com/lsat_explanations/lsat-61-section-2-question-24/

Hi when will the logic game explanations be available for June 2017 lsat PT81?

Thanks

was just curious if anyone knows whether the last June LSAT (prep test 81 I believe?) will be available before the September LSAT for review?

Hey guys! We've got a fellow 7Sager who's PTing in the 170's and looking to 1) improve herself and 2) pay it forward to this awesome community. We suggested that she offer to tutor for free. Thing is she's pretty shy in the threads / comments so I'm making the announcement for her.

She wants to work with you to BR your LR or RC sections from your PTs. (There are a few PTs she hasn't taken yet so she will decline doing those—you can figure this out with her—but most PTs she's already completed.)

If you're interested, let me know by commenting here and I'll put her in touch with you.

It's a great opportunity!

Hey all,

i am having trouble. I have been PT-ing for 4 weeks not, consistently scoring in upper 160's, but sometimes i dip down to low 160's. never lower then that, but I also have not broken 170 yet, i am just stuck in the 160's. i am upset because today I scored a 160, after scoring a 165 two nights before. My BR scores are ridiculously high, somewhere like 172-177 generally. I'm not sure what to do and getting ridiculously discouraged because of today's PT score. I do take breaks, I am healthy when it comes to studying so I know it's not my method. But, I posted before and someone said that I am missing those curve breaker questions so i started to slow down in my sections, but I find that i am scoring lower now? thoughts or suggestions on how to actually reach my BR score? or just stop yo-yoing with my score? I want to have a consistent PT average to accurately predict where I am going to score at on test day.

thanks!

I graduated from ASU Barrett, the honors college with a 3.91 and completed an extensive honors thesis. After taking a semester long Princeton review prep class that didn't seem to help my practice test scores at all, I got a 154 on the June 2016 test. I decided to take a year off and will be working at a nice law firm for this next year. I believe I'll have great letters of rec from my my thesis director and employer. I want to retake the lsat this September but I think my score will not improve much as I will only have about two months to study again. I'm worried that my school options with these scores won't be ideal even with my higher GPA and everything else. Any thoughts or recommendations?

I just wanted to take a few moments to thank you all for being the most welcoming and helpful community of aspiring lawyers I could ever imagine (which is so outside the norm it's not even funny - I'm sure we all know many nasty, spiteful, shithead current/aspiring lawyers).

My LSAT journey began last July, when I was thinking about fleeing my current job via postgraduate education (I actually love my organization and coworkers, but it was and continued to be a brutal few months at work). I took a diagnostic test (153), registered for September, and jumped into the old powerscore books I bought in 2013 when I thought I'd go straight to law school from undergrad. They were pretty helpful, but I wasn't anywhere near my target score (173+), so I decided to withdraw the night before the September test.

Since December was going to be my last chance to apply that cycle, I was really aiming to hit that test out of the park, and have my applications ready for when I received my score. I went back to studying amidst 60+ hour work weeks. I discovered 7sage around Halloween and found the LG explanations tremendously helpful, but I was so close to my test date that I felt like it wasn't worth getting even the starter pack.

Unfortunately, I bombed the December test, and knew it walking out of the test center. My maladroitness with logic games had been brutally exposed, as I ran out of time on the last two games, and it was reflected in my score: -8 on that section alone, and a 166 overall (which obviously isn't terrible, but was several points below my average and way below my target score). I made the tough decision to delay my applications and retake in June.

After about a month off of anything LSAT-related, I jumped back into studying with renewed vigor - I knew that I had to and could shore up my LG, so I worked on them disproportionately. I used a modified version of the foolproof method (which I'm happy to share with anyone who's curious - I think 3-4 tries on the same LG is super unnecessary tbh) and worked through pretty much every single logic game the LSAC has ever released at least once. I threw in a full PT about every weekend (I tried to do at least 3 a month) and jumped on a few blind review calls.

Come June, I was feeling way more confident, and the amount of work I put into LG finally paid off. Last night at 9:40PM, after spending an agonizing 4 days constantly refreshing, I finally received some good news - I'd gotten -0 on LG, and hit my target score with a 174 overall. I'll be applying as early as possible when applications open, and then I'm quitting my job in February to globetrot for 5-6 months before starting law school in the fall of 2018.

I do genuinely feel bad about never having invested my own money into 7sage; it just never made sense for me given the stage of studying I was at (the core curriculum wouldn't have helped me very much, and I already had access to every PT thanks to some friends), but it almost feels as if I took advantage of the rest of you who do pay, and all the sages who put in so much time and effort to make this product and community great. For that reason, I'll still poke around the forums sometimes and answer questions if I can, and am happy to jump on the occasional BR call if requested and available. I'm also happy to do personal statement swaps and whatnot once apps open up in the fall!

Special shouts to @twssmith for being one of the kindest and most encouraging people I've ever had the pleasure to (virtually) meet, JY for helping thousands of schmucks like myself on their paths to law school, and all you weirdos who are obsessed with definitively finding the perfect test-taking pencil.

And for anyone who may be feeling frustrated after their June results; I'm so sorry, I've been there and it sucks. But you can and will hit your target score the next time!

TL;DR: Y'all are fucking awesome, stay fresh.

PS: this was me hungover at work today -

So I've been reading a lot about how the recent exams have started incorporating more "weird games," i.e. ones that aren't the traditional grouping, sequencing, in/out games (labelled as Misc. here at 7sage). For example, the infamous "virus" game, which I haven't tried yet, but from what I understand was notoriously difficult and weird.

I was just wondering whether these "weird" games are completely new, or are actually just a different form of one of the Misc. games that have appeared in older tests. In other words, if I fool proofed 1-35, will I be safe in tackling these sorts of games? Have any of these recent weird games been completely new and have no analogous counterparts in PTs 1-35?

Thanks for the help!

I took the DEC lsat and scored 146 (Used Blueprint LSAT course), Now I'm scoring around 155-160 on the practice exams. The questions I'm missing are stupid mistakes however. I always have it narrowed to two possible choices on LR and I'm choosing the incorrect one. My goal is to score 160+ on the Sept test. Any ideas on how I could resolve this issue?

I got some questions... Can someone help me find the inferences of following?

.

• M←/→N→O inference:

I believe no inference can be made ….. or is it O←s→/M?????

.

• P -m→ Q ←/→R inference:

P -m→/R

.

• A←s→B←/→C inference:

Again, I don't think there is any inference that can be made …….. but some people say A←s→/C, /C←s→A...

.

.

.

.

.

Can someone plz help me find the correct inference? Thank you!!! (3(/p)

Wondering if there are any particular threads that we should* read over to help us better structure our prep? Especially any threads started by (inactive or active) Sages and/or Mentors (or any 7Sage user for that matter).

*Absolutely must

Hi, does anyone know for sure whether law schools even read your personal statement after seeing that your lsat score is not in their desired range?

Spent a lovely week in the mountains of Colorado and now I don't even remember what a LSAT is. Iv'e been trying to get back into my routine and nothing is working. Has anyone else experienced a break and found they can't get back on the grind? I need motivation!

I've been thinking about where I want to apply in a few months and if I want to apply early decision to any school. I'm from the midwest and I'd like to stay here at a top 20 school with more of a national reputation; I'd eventually like to work for the federal government or in the AG office of a state government. My top choices are Chicago U, Northwestern, Wash U STL, and Notre Dame.

Wash U and Northwestern both offer full rides if you apply and are admitted early decision, which makes those schools look extra tempting. My question is this. Wash U promises a two week turnaround for a decision from the time you apply. If I were to apply to Wash U early on and receive either a rejection or a note saying I'll be considered with the general applicants, would I then be allowed to apply early decision at Northwestern? Or any other school in any order for that matter?

My gut would say "no" based on the early decision agreement most schools make you sign, but I figured I'd confirm that. I'd appreciate if anyone could help me out!

Hi guys- just wanted some feedback on my scenario, as I recently decided against my entire plan and am leaning towards waiting until fall 2018 app cycle.

Originally, I intended on applying this fall after sitting this Dec. However, these last couple months have been riddled with work commitments, and a mil other things leading to much less time than I planned on studying.

Initially, I told myself to “power up” and just make these next 5 months the most productive EVER in order to sit in Dec hit my target (170+)… yeah, no. I have come to the conclusion that this may not be realistic with my current full time job and other obligations that I cannot step away from, nor would I really feel fully prepared. I am learning that this is not a journey that I can just put a fixed date on, as I always usually do with my non-LSAT goals.

Sooo… I’ve figured that it might just be best to wait on this. I hate postponing stuff, but successfully conquering this test is not something that will magically happen, unless serious time is put into my prep and I am not in a position to quit my full time job.

Has anyone else been in this position, or have any feedback on deciding to postpone apps til next cycle to take a year for substantial prep. When I I decided to take this test, I had no idea a year would be the length of my prep, but that is definitely becoming my scenario.

Hey everyone,

7sage has the optional June 2007 LSAT listed in the syllabus, and was wondering if this should be taken timed or not timed?

I was in the middle of studying the Weaken section part of the Core Curriculum when all of a sudden I hit next and I get re-directed to the main page; when I go back to the course syllabus, some of the syllabus is missing and I lost my progress (went from 12 percent completion to 6 percent). I still have another year left before my 7SAGE subscription runs out. What's happening?

EDIT 1: Seems to be an issue for a majority of students; I wouldn't worry too much. 7SAGE staff are probably already working on a solution. Hold tight; grab a beverage and relax until the issue is resolved guys.

EDIT 2: Admin Dillon A. Wright confirmed the issue is prevalent and that the staff are working on it.

Hi- I'm curious how everyone organizes their LSAT material. Binder etc? I end up with papers everywhere. I have a stack of random passages that I did and corrected etc then some practice tests but I end up doing so many questions it's a challenge to keep everything organized.

I might just be venting right now, but I can not for the life of me get LR down to 0 - 2 range. My brain just doesn't want to grasp it! The questions always seem to stump me in just the right way during timed sections and then when I see them again with time make 100% of sense. I sit down and right out why every answer is wrong and why one is right. I go back to the CC on how to approach different types, I do LR many, many many, times per week.

GAH.

Okay sorry, but for real its getting under my skin.

I signed up for the July Forum in DC thinking I'd be in town then. I'm no longer going to be there, but am considering making a trip (~5 hr bus each way) down in order to attend. To those who have been, is it worth it? Also, I'm taking the LSAT in September so won't have a score on file by then, if that affects anything.

Hi all!

I just found this forum thanks to TLS forums. After much consideration and my 2016-2017 application cycle not turning out how I wanted, I have officially decided on a third retake. Previous scores: 150 (very little self-study) and 155 (Testmasters online course -didn't have time to finish and a tragic family death a week before my test date). My goal is to get into the 170's with the realistic reservation that high 160's would be great as well. With the extenuating circumstances around my previous test date and the way my cycle went, I felt I would be selling myself short without another retake.

In terms of my current study plan, I have been going back and forth on signing up for another course. While I did improve 5 points with Testmasters, I am not signing up for them again. I have been looking into 7sage (obviously) and into Blueprint. I also just purchased the LSAT Trainer and the 10 Actual Practice Tests 62-71 I already have. (I may still have the power score bibles as well, have to check...)

Overall, I am looking for guidance on if ANOTHER course is something everyone thinks is worth it? I just quit my job, so I can devote myself to full-time study, I am looking at a Sept/Oct test date and to re-apply this fall. Presently, my plan is to work through the LSAT Trainer and supplement with the free videos on 7sage... any guidance is appreciated.

Thoughts, ideas, am I missing something?

I took the June 2017 test, scored a 172. Goal was 176+. I definitely have room for improvement on LR, but I think I know how to approach that. RC I'm a little more unsure about. For reference, I was -3 on RC on the June test and that's right around where I usually score.

I've heard of people drilling RC but I don't know what that actually entails. Anyone have experience with that?

I've used PowerScore, LSAT Hacks, LSAT Trainer, and other tutor's videos on how to approach a passage. I've found that notation is distracting and prevents me from reading the passage. I just sort of read the passage, don't move on to the questions until I understand it and then when I answer questions I either go back and reference lines or I just know the answer. In other words, I just wing it.

If you had 6 weeks to dedicate just to RC, how would you structure that time?